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Rear wing options???

 
Old 03-14-2009, 04:21 AM
  #181  
HansB
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Originally Posted by HansB View Post
I found an on line simulator from NASA
@TonyG: Better then a spreadsheet. Just play with it.

Last edited by HansB; 03-14-2009 at 04:50 AM.
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:27 AM
  #182  
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I'm interested in what to expect also. See the new wing into position and also with the small rear lip spoiler. Looks much better like this. This takes some time in setting up from scratch. Sean spent many hours getting this far. Still a little bit more to do yet but looking good so far.
I wonder with the non linear front part of this wing, just how much angle is going to be needed? Seems like this style of wing is becoming more popular that the straight or flat ones.
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Old 03-14-2009, 08:31 AM
  #183  
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I've got another paper on this 'stuff' that I've sent to Tony. I can't upload it here as it's too big (3 pages??) however it seems to suggest that more downforce measured in psi is exerted than perhaps we've covered here, but also list what sort of hp loss over drag that is incurred. Interesting stuff.

Another thing I've noticed is that in both Hans' link to the NASA program and this paper I'm alluding to, they're both dealing with a cross section of a foil in 2D. So this is only scratching the surface. Well beyond my tiny mind but I like it nonetheless.
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:23 AM
  #184  
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Lot of useful info at the apr site here
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Old 03-14-2009, 10:41 AM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by thingo View Post
Lot of useful info at the apr site here
That is good info, reasonably consistent with the NASA model

@Patrick: The stuff is complicated enough in 2D, we might want to leave the third dimension in peace.

I am planning to put some linear transducers on my shocks to do some real measurements and analysis, hopefully this summer
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Old 03-14-2009, 02:15 PM
  #186  
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Originally Posted by thingo View Post
Lot of useful info at the apr site here
Great site but how would you mount these to our cars?
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:10 PM
  #187  
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Originally Posted by smlporsche View Post
Great site but how would you mount these to our cars?
they make custom spaceing on the mounts, then a long upright directly into the "frame rails" was my plan.
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:37 PM
  #188  
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I wondered how hard it would be to make moveable struts or uprights so that down the straight the wing either lowered or changed angles and visa versa on the corners? You could even hook this up to your GPS racetrack box thing that has the circuit in it's memory and therefore knows when you're coming up to a corner.
Just trying to think outside the square....
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:42 PM
  #189  
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Well from what I can glean with a quick scan of that site (thanks Rod) is that these wings are designed to incorporate positive downforce with the least amount of drag. As opposed to a single plane flat wing. This doesn't look completely different from the one I've got so I guess we can set it up with the raised centre section on Zero degrees pitch and yet create downforce with the lip and the side sections. Does this seem about right?
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:45 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by HansB View Post
That is good info, reasonably consistent with the NASA model

@Patrick: The stuff is complicated enough in 2D, we might want to leave the third dimension in peace.

I am planning to put some linear transducers on my shocks to do some real measurements and analysis, hopefully this summer
I have a contact at EXA (http://www.exa.com/) if anyone is interested in the 3D analysis end of this... Just bear in mind, just the wing analysis would probably cost more than some of the cars that might be interested in installing this wing....

The last sim they ran for us took three weeks, and cost just north of 50K, but WOW are the tools they have powerful...And solutions they provide are dead on acurate...
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:48 PM
  #191  
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Ahh what the heck John, just book us in
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Old 03-14-2009, 04:57 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by 333pg333 View Post
Ahh what the heck John, just book us in
I was just trying to put into perspective the difference between a 2D sim on the web and a 3D CFD sim being used by US DOD, Auto OEMs, and high end professional race teams (the guys running multi million dollar cars)... Their suite time shares on supercomputer base frames and can take days to compile, but gives actual visual feedback, and they can run sims based on any parameters given (IE drag, downforce, AND thermal impact of wing X at angle Y on vehicle Z at speed A,B,C,D,E)...

I have used their POWER SIM, and all I can say is WOW, it allows you to change geometry of a given system and watch the impact of the changes in real time...
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Old 03-14-2009, 05:07 PM
  #193  
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No doubt that would be just slightly higher tech than we are doing lol. Looks very interesting and wouldn't it be nice to get one of our cars in there and let some guys have a play around?

I'm wondering how much drag vs downforce is important? At what stage does the angle of attack become counterproductive?
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Old 03-14-2009, 05:26 PM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by 333pg333 View Post
No doubt that would be just slightly higher tech than we are doing lol. Looks very interesting and wouldn't it be nice to get one of our cars in there and let some guys have a play around?

I'm wondering how much drag vs downforce is important? At what stage does the angle of attack become counterproductive?
Might be a little overkill, but their client list speaks for itself... I am a consultant to some very powerful entities, and their analysis was very important to our work... They also have Porsche (think design changes between GT-3 and GT-2), Chrysler, Navistar... Basically if it goes fast, is top in fuel efficiency, or is sold world wide they have analyzed it at one time or another, but they are expensive...

Real world trial and error can get the same effect, but at the end of the day depending on expense of real testing they are cost effective...
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Old 03-14-2009, 09:50 PM
  #195  
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Drag and downforce are the main things to pay attention to, least drag most downforce, broadly speaking as you increase the angle downforce and drag increase but at a certain point drag starts increasing more than downforce, so the efficiency of the wing lessens.How much drag you can tolerate is determined by your horsepower and the speeds you intend to run.
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