Rear wing options???
#182
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I'm interested in what to expect also. See the new wing into position and also with the small rear lip spoiler. Looks much better like this. This takes some time in setting up from scratch. Sean spent many hours getting this far. Still a little bit more to do yet but looking good so far.
I wonder with the non linear front part of this wing, just how much angle is going to be needed? Seems like this style of wing is becoming more popular that the straight or flat ones.
I wonder with the non linear front part of this wing, just how much angle is going to be needed? Seems like this style of wing is becoming more popular that the straight or flat ones.
#183
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I've got another paper on this 'stuff' that I've sent to Tony. I can't upload it here as it's too big (3 pages??) however it seems to suggest that more downforce measured in psi is exerted than perhaps we've covered here, but also list what sort of hp loss over drag that is incurred. Interesting stuff.
Another thing I've noticed is that in both Hans' link to the NASA program and this paper I'm alluding to, they're both dealing with a cross section of a foil in 2D. So this is only scratching the surface. Well beyond my tiny mind but I like it nonetheless.
Another thing I've noticed is that in both Hans' link to the NASA program and this paper I'm alluding to, they're both dealing with a cross section of a foil in 2D. So this is only scratching the surface. Well beyond my tiny mind but I like it nonetheless.
#185
Lot of useful info at the apr site here
@Patrick: The stuff is complicated enough in 2D, we might want to leave the third dimension in peace.
I am planning to put some linear transducers on my shocks to do some real measurements and analysis, hopefully this summer
#187
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#188
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Thread Starter
I wondered how hard it would be to make moveable struts or uprights so that down the straight the wing either lowered or changed angles and visa versa on the corners? You could even hook this up to your GPS racetrack box thing that has the circuit in it's memory and therefore knows when you're coming up to a corner.
Just trying to think outside the square....
Just trying to think outside the square....
#189
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well from what I can glean with a quick scan of that site (thanks Rod) is that these wings are designed to incorporate positive downforce with the least amount of drag. As opposed to a single plane flat wing. This doesn't look completely different from the one I've got so I guess we can set it up with the raised centre section on Zero degrees pitch and yet create downforce with the lip and the side sections. Does this seem about right?
#190
Nordschleife Master
That is good info, reasonably consistent with the NASA model
@Patrick: The stuff is complicated enough in 2D, we might want to leave the third dimension in peace.
I am planning to put some linear transducers on my shocks to do some real measurements and analysis, hopefully this summer
@Patrick: The stuff is complicated enough in 2D, we might want to leave the third dimension in peace.
I am planning to put some linear transducers on my shocks to do some real measurements and analysis, hopefully this summer
The last sim they ran for us took three weeks, and cost just north of 50K, but WOW are the tools they have powerful...And solutions they provide are dead on acurate...
#191
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ahh what the heck John, just book us in
#192
Nordschleife Master
I was just trying to put into perspective the difference between a 2D sim on the web and a 3D CFD sim being used by US DOD, Auto OEMs, and high end professional race teams (the guys running multi million dollar cars)... Their suite time shares on supercomputer base frames and can take days to compile, but gives actual visual feedback, and they can run sims based on any parameters given (IE drag, downforce, AND thermal impact of wing X at angle Y on vehicle Z at speed A,B,C,D,E)...
I have used their POWER SIM, and all I can say is WOW, it allows you to change geometry of a given system and watch the impact of the changes in real time...
I have used their POWER SIM, and all I can say is WOW, it allows you to change geometry of a given system and watch the impact of the changes in real time...
#193
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
No doubt that would be just slightly higher tech than we are doing lol. Looks very interesting and wouldn't it be nice to get one of our cars in there and let some guys have a play around?
I'm wondering how much drag vs downforce is important? At what stage does the angle of attack become counterproductive?
I'm wondering how much drag vs downforce is important? At what stage does the angle of attack become counterproductive?
#194
Nordschleife Master
No doubt that would be just slightly higher tech than we are doing lol. Looks very interesting and wouldn't it be nice to get one of our cars in there and let some guys have a play around?
I'm wondering how much drag vs downforce is important? At what stage does the angle of attack become counterproductive?
I'm wondering how much drag vs downforce is important? At what stage does the angle of attack become counterproductive?
Real world trial and error can get the same effect, but at the end of the day depending on expense of real testing they are cost effective...
#195
Rennlist Member
Drag and downforce are the main things to pay attention to, least drag most downforce, broadly speaking as you increase the angle downforce and drag increase but at a certain point drag starts increasing more than downforce, so the efficiency of the wing lessens.How much drag you can tolerate is determined by your horsepower and the speeds you intend to run.