The Cone Filter location
01-05-2009, 10:37 PM
#16
I am working on this set up w/ a piece that comes off turbo with nipples, then the AFM puracils to this (need to fab a bracket to hold AFM Stable), then another piece bolts to the AFM and allows filter to attach.
To make this possible I had to remove the hard coolant lines in front of the timing belt. This freed up sooo much space. I have a thread onhow I plan to replace and keep the room. I willtry to post some photos next week if anyone is interested.
Steve
To make this possible I had to remove the hard coolant lines in front of the timing belt. This freed up sooo much space. I have a thread onhow I plan to replace and keep the room. I willtry to post some photos next week if anyone is interested.
Steve
12-07-2009, 12:08 PM
#17
Drive-by provocation guy
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Well, that's not really true.
Air flow, actually, takes precedent over temps.
If, for an example, an engine can use 400 cfm at full power, any restriction in the inlet tract that causes a pressure drop, when the engine demands this cfm, will cause quite a drop in power. Colder air can recover that, but it has to be a lot colder; extremes you would rarely see.
Density is king. Flow losses cause pressure drops. Less pressure loses density quicker than colder temps can recover.
Of course, if you restrict your inlet a bit, but this flow threshold is still above what the engine needs, then no problem.
Air flow, actually, takes precedent over temps.
If, for an example, an engine can use 400 cfm at full power, any restriction in the inlet tract that causes a pressure drop, when the engine demands this cfm, will cause quite a drop in power. Colder air can recover that, but it has to be a lot colder; extremes you would rarely see.
Density is king. Flow losses cause pressure drops. Less pressure loses density quicker than colder temps can recover.
Of course, if you restrict your inlet a bit, but this flow threshold is still above what the engine needs, then no problem.
Actually, for specific dyno before and after results, several big companies cold air intakes were tested and the ones that flowed less air, but cooler source for the intake of air, all made more hp than those that simply flowed more air.
I am not sure where the law of diminishing returns shows up here, but from that test, in general, cooler air resulted in more power than more air. Of course if you are talking about a LOT more air then that might supersede the cooling effects.
Also, more air does not have the added benefit of safer/increased boost where cooler charge air does so this gives a "double whammy". Every 15 degree drop of intake temps, allows 1 psi of additional boost to be run safely.
I agree the temps would have to be an extream swing, but you would see this as under hood temps can eaisly be 100 degrees or more hotter than ambient and even more so in the winter.
12-07-2009, 12:19 PM
#18
Rainman
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on the 951s i have done work on i have always been surprised when trying to open the hood after a run because the hood latch is super hot from air coming out of the IC. cant imagine what the engine must be sucking up.
12-07-2009, 03:19 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
I remember back in the day somebody took some Intake Air Temperature (IAT) measurements for the K&N filter behind the radiator --- the temperatures definitely got up there in traffic, but once moving they were not that much higher than ambient.
For a track environment, it's probably a wash ...
Plus you could also add a NACA duct to the nose panel to get some fresh air to the filter...if you have to use the stock J-pipe per the rules.
For a track environment, it's probably a wash ...
Plus you could also add a NACA duct to the nose panel to get some fresh air to the filter...if you have to use the stock J-pipe per the rules.
12-07-2009, 07:34 PM
#21
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If you are tied to the standard AFM location by rules the answer is an air box maybe standard maybe one from another car .maybe a paint tin.
A cone filter in a box is nice as there is more filter area .
ok so you cant get 3" tube past the headlight motor but you can get several bits of 2" tube or ducting to past there or to somewhere cool and possibly positive pressured.
that alternator duct can be used .
at the junk yard many Mitsubishi's have a realy good steel bucket clip lid air box it is about 8" dia and has about 6 or 7' dia tube filter heaps of filter area = minimal flo loss.
can you remove the lower driving lights and duct from there ?
even if you just take those little end bits and leave the lights in there in little duct left
A cone filter in a box is nice as there is more filter area .
ok so you cant get 3" tube past the headlight motor but you can get several bits of 2" tube or ducting to past there or to somewhere cool and possibly positive pressured.
that alternator duct can be used .
at the junk yard many Mitsubishi's have a realy good steel bucket clip lid air box it is about 8" dia and has about 6 or 7' dia tube filter heaps of filter area = minimal flo loss.
can you remove the lower driving lights and duct from there ?
even if you just take those little end bits and leave the lights in there in little duct left
12-07-2009, 08:13 PM
#22
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I'm "hoping" that with a FMIC that I plan on doing this winter I'll be able to fit my filter under my vented header panel where the stock IC used to be. The only thing that would keep me from doing this is not enough room to run 3 pipes into it....but we'll see 
12-07-2009, 11:19 PM
#23
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I peresonally would like to see the temp numbers under the hood at 100 mph. At that speed the air under the hood is being replaced faster than it can heat up. The only advantage of having a "cold air intake" is at lower speeds or from a standing start. Don't flame me if you don't have the numbers to back it up.
12-08-2009, 12:34 AM
#24
One thing to keep in mind, 951's react much better if the turbo is allowed to suck the air, rather than forcing the air in. Ram air doesn't work on turbos.
Best idea I have seen was NZ951's set up, it allows air to be drawn up from the a/c dryer area and the fenderwell, but blocks the hot engine air. I'd love to figure out a way to get a stock paper filter intake in that area, but I don't see how its possible as its not big enough.
Regards,
Best idea I have seen was NZ951's set up, it allows air to be drawn up from the a/c dryer area and the fenderwell, but blocks the hot engine air. I'd love to figure out a way to get a stock paper filter intake in that area, but I don't see how its possible as its not big enough.
Regards,
12-08-2009, 01:01 AM
#25
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Scott thas is a complementary outrageous and wrong statement.. did i mis interpret ??? did you mean " cold air is more benifical than positive pressure " perhaps ...
To say increasing the air pressure around the air filter has no benefits is basically saying "general physics don't apply here"
To say increasing the air pressure around the air filter has no benefits is basically saying "general physics don't apply here"
12-08-2009, 01:15 AM
#26
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Best idea I have seen was NZ951's set up, it allows air to be drawn up from the a/c dryer area and the fenderwell, but blocks the hot engine air. I'd love to figure out a way to get a stock paper filter intake in that area, but I don't see how its possible as its not big enough.
Regards,
Regards,
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Last edited by Bri Bro; 12-08-2009 at 01:31 AM.
12-08-2009, 02:51 AM
#27
Scott thas is a complementary outrageous and wrong statement.. did i mis interpret ??? did you mean " cold air is more benifical than positive pressure " perhaps ...
To say increasing the air pressure around the air filter has no benefits is basically saying "general physics don't apply here"
To say increasing the air pressure around the air filter has no benefits is basically saying "general physics don't apply here"
This *is* an application of general physics.
12-08-2009, 03:09 AM
#30
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