The fact is: The car is in "Excellent Condition" now.
09-23-2008, 12:43 PM
#182
Rennlist Member
My thinking exactly; the "bye" email would seem to make a strong statement in regard to "intent" and frame the attempted fraud argument, while the allegedly false and misleading statements in the various sale ad's would serve to underpin "intent" provide the basis of the broader fraud claims.
09-23-2008, 12:52 PM
#184
Pumice King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, TX.
Posts: 6,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is the link to the internet fraud complaint center:
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
This is the link to auto trader fraud center:
fraudwatch@autotrader.com
This is the email address of the Office of the Inspector General of the SEC:
www.reportlineweb.com/sec_oig/
This is the NY license plate # of the alleged attempted fraudsters car: EFG-4591 as published on Autotrader and in other public places by the alleged attempted fraudster himself...
Linking the license photo from the Autotrader ad to the license photo from eBay and others would tie them together as being from the same person. The "white inserts" lettering is evident in the photos as further linkage, etc., etc. Gather all of these links...
The "MrAllegedAttemptedFraudster951" avitar photo includes a photo of the car and himself. Can't remember if the plate was visible, but it sure looks like the car in the ads and his registration was from Youngstown NY. We'd need copies of that...
In the YouTube video, the guy looks the same, the car looks the same. Not sure about identification, but I'd bet we could pull some from the video posting IP address, etc. We need the video as an offline link so he can't block it...
The guy's phone number is 716-550-0421 as published in AutoTrader by Mr.Tool himself...
I do not have all the info or the time, but if someone gathered the material from the list above and used the original "bye" posting as a basis for "alleging" fraud, we could then submit that to all the appropriate agencies with no ramifications.
IMO he is an "alleged" "attempted fraudster" until proven guilty. There is strong evidence, written in his own hand and posted by himself to a public forum, of his own volition, which would lead any reasonable person to question the contents of his simultanious and subsequent "for sale" advertisements in other public forums, all of which are contradictory to his boasting in the "bye" postings. Furthermore, some of the material information in the sale ads contain misleading and or outright false information.
So, IMO this would be attempted fraud as he has not actually sold the car, to the best of our knowledge. Since fraud prevention is the point, I think we are well within our rights to gahter information and let authorities decide, as long as we do not actually slander or lible MrTool. (That means we can't make up stuff about the guy and publish or procalim it as a fact. Calling him names is not nice, but it is neither slanderious or libleious. I would urge all to be careful in making claims as fact that might not be true. Calling him a "douchebag" is not a statement of fact, simply a personal opinion based on the information at hand. :-)
Would someone please gather the various postings concerning points, like 1) "Big Red" brakes not fitting under the Phone Dials -- "so therefore they could not be Big Reds your honor" -- etc. (which is correct BTW, I have them on my '86 and sold the spare 'cause it wouldn't fit over the calipers anymore) and the other items that seem to be outright lies; put that on one sheet. Then 2) gather the various postings relating to the "bye" email. This would help show intent to defraud. Then 3) as much info from i) the eBay ad with photos ii) the Autotrader ad with photos; and, iii) the various responses to questions etc. And, any other info that the members think would be helpful.
For now, just gather it and PM me that you have a stack of it in one place. DO NOT POST IT HERE.
Once gathered we can quickly write a cover letter and then submit our allegations either as a group or under pettition, or individually en masse. All submitting the same material. I'll follow up on this later...
Or, with the information at hand everyone can simply go to town at will!
I'm doing some research on the SEC link to be sure that it is within our rights to alert the SEC that a suspected fraudster was trying to get his Series 7 and work on Wall Street. Some brokerage houses might just see that as a badge of honor...
Just my two cents while waiting for a conference call to begin this morning...
http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
This is the link to auto trader fraud center:
fraudwatch@autotrader.com
This is the email address of the Office of the Inspector General of the SEC:
www.reportlineweb.com/sec_oig/
This is the NY license plate # of the alleged attempted fraudsters car: EFG-4591 as published on Autotrader and in other public places by the alleged attempted fraudster himself...
Linking the license photo from the Autotrader ad to the license photo from eBay and others would tie them together as being from the same person. The "white inserts" lettering is evident in the photos as further linkage, etc., etc. Gather all of these links...
The "MrAllegedAttemptedFraudster951" avitar photo includes a photo of the car and himself. Can't remember if the plate was visible, but it sure looks like the car in the ads and his registration was from Youngstown NY. We'd need copies of that...
In the YouTube video, the guy looks the same, the car looks the same. Not sure about identification, but I'd bet we could pull some from the video posting IP address, etc. We need the video as an offline link so he can't block it...
The guy's phone number is 716-550-0421 as published in AutoTrader by Mr.Tool himself...
I do not have all the info or the time, but if someone gathered the material from the list above and used the original "bye" posting as a basis for "alleging" fraud, we could then submit that to all the appropriate agencies with no ramifications.
IMO he is an "alleged" "attempted fraudster" until proven guilty. There is strong evidence, written in his own hand and posted by himself to a public forum, of his own volition, which would lead any reasonable person to question the contents of his simultanious and subsequent "for sale" advertisements in other public forums, all of which are contradictory to his boasting in the "bye" postings. Furthermore, some of the material information in the sale ads contain misleading and or outright false information.
So, IMO this would be attempted fraud as he has not actually sold the car, to the best of our knowledge. Since fraud prevention is the point, I think we are well within our rights to gahter information and let authorities decide, as long as we do not actually slander or lible MrTool. (That means we can't make up stuff about the guy and publish or procalim it as a fact. Calling him names is not nice, but it is neither slanderious or libleious. I would urge all to be careful in making claims as fact that might not be true. Calling him a "douchebag" is not a statement of fact, simply a personal opinion based on the information at hand. :-)
Would someone please gather the various postings concerning points, like 1) "Big Red" brakes not fitting under the Phone Dials -- "so therefore they could not be Big Reds your honor" -- etc. (which is correct BTW, I have them on my '86 and sold the spare 'cause it wouldn't fit over the calipers anymore) and the other items that seem to be outright lies; put that on one sheet. Then 2) gather the various postings relating to the "bye" email. This would help show intent to defraud. Then 3) as much info from i) the eBay ad with photos ii) the Autotrader ad with photos; and, iii) the various responses to questions etc. And, any other info that the members think would be helpful.
For now, just gather it and PM me that you have a stack of it in one place. DO NOT POST IT HERE.
Once gathered we can quickly write a cover letter and then submit our allegations either as a group or under pettition, or individually en masse. All submitting the same material. I'll follow up on this later...
Or, with the information at hand everyone can simply go to town at will!
I'm doing some research on the SEC link to be sure that it is within our rights to alert the SEC that a suspected fraudster was trying to get his Series 7 and work on Wall Street. Some brokerage houses might just see that as a badge of honor...
Just my two cents while waiting for a conference call to begin this morning...
09-23-2008, 05:17 PM
#188
Monkeys Removed by Request
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
09-23-2008, 05:51 PM
#189
Pumice King
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Dallas, TX.
Posts: 6,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
09-23-2008, 07:28 PM
#192
Monkeys Removed by Request
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
If you post ***** the thread out it might get closed. My advice would be to not do that since this thread is important and might be able to be updated with any new info on the car or its owner.
