odb812

i agree with xsboost on this one. you don't see it as much with the 951 since you can put a maf, piggyback, wastegate with boost controller, and huge turbo on the 951 and get a lot more power, but look at what you can do for the na porsche cars as far as bolt ons. porsche squeezes almost every last pony out of their cars. i'm not sure how na 944s are, but for the 968 it's close to $5k to get 280 hp out of a motor that pushes 240 hp stock. this is due in part to the fact that porsche was building a car with performance in mind and tuners have basically outsmart the engineers at porsche, although they have the technology that has developed since the production of these cars to help them. also, how many people are going to buy their parts. you can not compare the price of a performance part for a honda to the price of the same part for a porsche for this reason. you want cheaper performance parts, get a car that a ton of people have and are modifying.

bscpanther

Good to hear from everyone. I wasn't looking for any handouts, I'm a business man. I also believe in engineering and R&D but I also believe in keeping perspective. I could find myself wrong but my perspective is that we are talking about an intake manifold and a down pipe. We are not re inventing the wheel here. If I told NASA I was paying $1000 for R&D for my intake manifold they would kick me. (actually they would probably think I was getting a discount). The MAF I will take paying a small fortune for because it incorperates electronics... which is actually the simplist of all to duplicate but since we can't do it thats the way it goes. Back to the manifold, with the designs that are out there the only way I see of less flow is if you're getting your weld on the inside of the intake. I understand this can be argued all day but this is my real point/prediction. Someday a vendor will make and sell a 951 intake and DP (flow included) for alot less money and they will make money. HAPPY WORLD

PorscheDoc

If those things are so quick, cheap, and easy to fabricate, then any one of you guys should be able to do it in your garage on any given weekend. If you guys fail, hell you are only out 50 bucks in material and your time right? lol.

bscpanther

PorscheDoc, Lets not get off on a bad foot here so I strongly suggest if you feel like LOL you keep it to yourself. If you have something to add, pleasse do. But the question has already been posed so rhetorical questions and sarcasm get us nowhere.

BlacknRedGT

Talk to sharky47(dan), I know he has some plans in the wings but not sure where he is at as far as building the intake.

Dr. Dynamics

I call that the Porsche Tax

ausgeflippt951

i find myself agreeing with everybody here -- but with some qualifications along the way.

First off, with so few suppliers for aftermarket parts available for our 20 y/o cars, prices will go up. Talk to Tommo re: his Countach if you don't understand that concept. As a result, everything will have a higher inherent price to it due to the few number of parts being sold (compared to, say, Hondas). That is fine; it's partly what adds so much character to these cars, IMO.


However, what I don't agree with is the apparently huge amount of R&D supposedly going into these parts. Um, yeah sure. High R&D for a turbo? yes. High R&D for a downpipe? Definitely not. I've done a lot of flow testing of various intake manifold designs over the last few years; I've even made up a similar design to that which LR sells, and I can tell you that while it is a well-flowing manifold, it is certainly not the best out there. And any high schooler with a knack for gas dynamics and an equation for runner length could come up with LR's design in a heartbeat.

I don't want to sound like a *****, nor do I want to start badmouthing LR. Their IM is a fine piece that undoubtedly flows better than the stock one and is quite effective. But $1300-effective? Methinks no.



So in quick sum, high prices are a given with these cars, end of story. And maybe they need to be. Because without people like Tim, Vitesse, Russell, LR, Millege, etc we would not get to push the limits of these cars. Other than the obvious fun-factor and making people happy, there has to be an incentive to keep these guys "in the 944-biz".

So I offer this suggestion: if you don't like the ridiculous price of something, don't buy it, and make it yourself. Or, find a friend who can make it for you for significantly less. Then, for something you absolutely can't produce yourself, go ahead and buy it with all that money you've saved!

blown 944

+1^^^

I am a cheap bastard but, I have been around (IE: tuned) some very big HP (over 3000) in my time and all these little gains are not the end all be all IMO.

In the end, if you have a good A/F ratio and can push lots of air and efectively burn the fuel (whatever it is) you will make HP . Whether the parts will hold it is another story.

As for the comments about the manifold i presented LOL. If you have access to a flowbench and some imagination with runner length you'd be surprised what can be done for little $$.

I didn't mean to start any BS with vendors b/c personally I don't care. If I can't make it then yes, I would ultimately have to buy it.

Honestly, I really think that the parts presented in this market are way overpriced but that is tha nature of the beast here I guess, but I don't feel_ I personally_ need to abide by those rules.

badcoupe

I agree with many of the points here,as some of you know I've made my 3" dp and testpipe, yes I own a auto shop and a tig welder, but the time involved in making one formy car was crazy. I would hate to try to replicate it exactly and try to sell it, it most likely wouldn't fit anyone else's car correctly. I love making myself parts it's fun and challenging but to step and produce them and sell them would be a large hassle and dealing with people's gripes about fitment issues, because I'm not a professional at this. Tim's catback is the only piece of exhaust on my car I didn't make myself and it will stay that way, his workmanship is extrordinary. He probably could make parts cheaper with inferior materials but that goes against what he believes in. I've made some turbo manifolds for honda guys some of them have brought their own materials and let me say from a fabbing and welding standpoint there is a substantial difference in workability.

PorscheDoc

My point is that if you think the prices that are being charged are too high, then you have truly never paid an employee countless hours of R&D to build a product. Now pay for a building to do that R&D, keep the lights on, pay for the welder and supplies being used, etc....it all adds up very quickly.

bscpanther

Collin, very well stated argument. I agree with you. I just want to emphasize I don't have a problem paying a premium paying for my P-ride. If I did I wouldn't still have the car. I just don't like how these few products stand out and beyond that premium yet seem so very simple. One point I would politely disagree with you on is the idea that our vendors are different than any other. Business is business and I wouldn't expect it any other way. Don't get me wrong. I love our vendors and most of the time I love doing business with them. However, they still exist because of us and not the other way around. If they decided they didn't want to supply our parts (heaven forbid) other vendors would eventually take advantage of the opportunity. Sure they might love our cars and our habit but love won't pay the bills so lets give credit where credit is due.

bscpanther

Doc, now that I can respect and understand even if I don't agree.

931guru

If you think that the prices are too high, don't pay them.

Build it yourself, or buy it, or find another solution.

Vote with your wallet and your feet.

reno808

bscpanther i know what you mean. but there is nothing we can do. And they know it

Fishey

Until someone comes along offer better products for half the price.

Thing that holds me back from making 951 parts is I don't own one and I don't think its worth modifying.