Calling out Special Tool, 1/4 mile race
06-19-2007, 07:42 PM
#182
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Originally Posted by blitz951
.
The problem is that I dont think the cars in the contest are really making the numbers quoted, 500 + rwhp? I would guess these cars will run in the 12's under 120 mph.
I hope to be proven wrong and if the race does take place good luck to both of you.
The problem is that I dont think the cars in the contest are really making the numbers quoted, 500 + rwhp? I would guess these cars will run in the 12's under 120 mph.
I hope to be proven wrong and if the race does take place good luck to both of you.
Yea man, is better if you don't think.
06-19-2007, 07:44 PM
#183
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Originally Posted by LUISJR993
Nope, that sounds about right.
06-19-2007, 08:13 PM
#184
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Originally Posted by RPHARRIS
I have to agree with P-file on this one. He has made some very accute observations about the 951s other shortcomings in the past.
Last summer I interned at Griggs Racing. For those who don't know, they build some really increadible Mustangs
. I had the chance to work on a lot of 03/04 "Terminator" Cobras and something caught my eye. While everyone aplauded Ford for developing a dedicated IRS on these models, the simple fact is that it did not work for road racing or any kind of racing for that matter. The very first thing we would do to prepare a cobra for competition was to rip out the IRS, sell it on ebay, and install a tried and true stick axel. You would be amazed how well a cambered solid axel with a watts link and torque arm can work with the right geometry. For the front suspension, we had a beatiful SLA setup that bolted in place of the stock K-member. I hope someday someone will design something like that for the 944 because it sure made a world of difference on these mustangs.
I've often considered installing a solid axel on my 944
I think it would actually perform sustantially better than the semi-trailing "froglegs" that some say were never even meant to go an a rwd car. Obviously I would need to ditch the transaxle but hey, perfect chance to put in a beefier tranny.
What I'm starting to think is that 951 development is kind of stagnant at the moment. There aren't too many fresh ideas being put to the test around here. We could use more people like P-file. He questions why we all settle for doing things a certain way. I think we should all be so willing to step back from the 951 world and take a look at what others are doing.
The fact is, these cars are pretty old and band-aid solutions aren't going to keep them competative for much longer. They could really use some re-thinking and re-engineering in certain areas and unless we are willing to consider radical ideas, we're just a bunch of pompous dudes with a strange interest in old porsches (that "don't look like Porsches" as my friends often put it).
Last summer I interned at Griggs Racing. For those who don't know, they build some really increadible Mustangs
. I had the chance to work on a lot of 03/04 "Terminator" Cobras and something caught my eye. While everyone aplauded Ford for developing a dedicated IRS on these models, the simple fact is that it did not work for road racing or any kind of racing for that matter. The very first thing we would do to prepare a cobra for competition was to rip out the IRS, sell it on ebay, and install a tried and true stick axel. You would be amazed how well a cambered solid axel with a watts link and torque arm can work with the right geometry. For the front suspension, we had a beatiful SLA setup that bolted in place of the stock K-member. I hope someday someone will design something like that for the 944 because it sure made a world of difference on these mustangs.I've often considered installing a solid axel on my 944
I think it would actually perform sustantially better than the semi-trailing "froglegs" that some say were never even meant to go an a rwd car. Obviously I would need to ditch the transaxle but hey, perfect chance to put in a beefier tranny. What I'm starting to think is that 951 development is kind of stagnant at the moment. There aren't too many fresh ideas being put to the test around here. We could use more people like P-file. He questions why we all settle for doing things a certain way. I think we should all be so willing to step back from the 951 world and take a look at what others are doing.
The fact is, these cars are pretty old and band-aid solutions aren't going to keep them competative for much longer. They could really use some re-thinking and re-engineering in certain areas and unless we are willing to consider radical ideas, we're just a bunch of pompous dudes with a strange interest in old porsches (that "don't look like Porsches" as my friends often put it).
A stick axle ! well they did use them to cross the praires and i have never seen a chariot race without one ...
so you might have something there ....
06-19-2007, 08:37 PM
#185
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Originally Posted by special tool
We both have multiple CHASSIS dyno printouts, of course.
We don't talk out our asses on the 951 forum, we leave that for the 928 guys.
Joke, guys, joke.
We don't talk out our asses on the 951 forum, we leave that for the 928 guys.
Joke, guys, joke.
For comparison, the Enzo or Carr GT run in the low to mid 130's, EVO MS house 996tt with god knows how many mods is in the high 130's or low 140's and Markski (996tt) with the best Protomotive has to offer is also up there. I have personnal driving experience with the Enzo/Carr GT and a full bore build street Milledge 3.0 951 and the latter IMO falls way short of the above cars , especially above 120.
Contrary to popular belief drag racing requires serious skill at the high hp level and that will AFFECT both ET and trap big time plus altitude, track prep etc play a major role.
Please make me eat crow because I am in the minorty who believes that the ET's/trap will be nowhere near what some posters are predicting.
However, I do respect to what level you have taken the car with your own hands.
06-19-2007, 08:57 PM
#186
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Originally Posted by pole position
Contrary to popular belief drag racing requires serious skill at the high hp level and that will AFFECT both ET and trap big time plus altitude, track prep etc play a major role.
06-19-2007, 09:20 PM
#187
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Originally Posted by lart951
Pole, not being sarcastic but would be so kind to elaborate to what level of skill it is necessary to achive good results in 1/4 mile numbers besides, high power and good traction?
Basically it comes down to fine control and getting things right where they need to be. It is not a case of just going for it, and the harder you go for it the better you will do.
Last edited by Tms951; 06-19-2007 at 10:21 PM.
06-19-2007, 09:24 PM
#188
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Here is my prediction of what ST's launch at the quarter mile will look like:
From a dig
Of course, this is assuming he remembers to eat his spinach...
From a dig
Of course, this is assuming he remembers to eat his spinach...
06-19-2007, 09:40 PM
#189
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Originally Posted by lart951
Pole, not being sarcastic but would be so kind to elaborate to what level of skill it is necessary to achive good results in 1/4 mile numbers besides, high power and good traction?
As an ocasional spectator or participant just having fun you may not know or care, don't be fooled into thinking everybody there has the same approach.
Serious Drag racers focus and analyise their reaction times. Many practice (yes actual reaction time practice) and work intently on exact consistant launch. A repeatable low reaction time is a definate skill. Drag racing is all about consistancy. Anybody can go run it down the track, a skilled driver will do it exactly the same time after time.
Think it is not a challenge - go spend a day at the track and identify your own range of reaction times and ETs. Now go to a different track and start over. Then come back post your reaction times and et's and explain to everybody why it is so easy when most novice racers can rarely run consistantly within 1/2 a second. Now consider that your car is likely nothing close to a drag car in terms of power, ability to recover (pedal the car), and consistancy required to be repeatable.
BTW - .5 seconds is HUGE in drag racing. You are talking thousands and when you get into 10 sec range - likely tens of thousands $$ to pickup .5 seconds.
06-19-2007, 09:57 PM
#190
Originally Posted by Trucho-951
Here is my prediction of what ST's launch at the quarter mile will look like:
From a dig
Of course, this is assuming he remembers to eat his spinach...
From a dig
Of course, this is assuming he remembers to eat his spinach...
That is the sickest launch I have ever seen from a production based car.
06-20-2007, 12:17 AM
#191
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Originally Posted by lart951
Do you have a video of your 375rwhp & 275rwtq GT3?
06-20-2007, 12:19 AM
#192
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Originally Posted by pole position
EVO MS house 996tt with god knows how many mods is in the high 130's or low 140's
06-20-2007, 12:46 AM
#193
Three Wheelin'
Wow, this sure is a lot of discussion for no real reason. I honestly wonder how many people speculating here actually go to the drag strip? I think people are overlooking some very simple facts. A 600+whp 3000# or less car is going to haul lots of *** no matter how you look at it! Drag racing definitely takes skill, especially when it comes to consistency. With a good driver, decent launch, decent gearing (meaning no 3spd TH350 that tops out at 110mph or anything), and proper modulation of the pedals to keep the car under control as much as possible, a 600+whp car that's 3000# or less is going to have a LOT of acceleration once it grips. So far, no one has yet to actually prove otherwise with any kind of scientific or actual evidence other than they simply don't "think" things will work out quite like that in real life. I'd suggest looking Here , on other forums or actually talking to people that trap 130's to see what it really takes rather than generalizing by saying things will work out differently in real life. No offense to you Luis but, ST's car should supposedly have some 200-250+whp MORE than your car, so regardless it's quite a bit faster, assuming the power numbers add up right.
06-20-2007, 12:56 AM
#194
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Originally Posted by Porschefile
No offense to you Luis but, ST's car should supposedly have some 200-250+whp MORE than your car, so regardless it's quite a bit faster, assuming the power numbers add up right.
There is a lot of speculation on what these cars "should" run but no proof (Videos, time slips etc) that any are running anywhere close to these times. I have had many 944's in all flavors (Except 600rwhp ones
) and understand what it takes to get a good clean run down the strip. You keep on talking about HP and weight but fail to add other factors that are equally as important in making these 944T's run the times we would like to see them run.
06-20-2007, 01:32 AM
#195
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Originally Posted by Tms951
I'll answer this one. First off it’s the launch; there only one specific set of circumstances under each car can be launched right. To much the tires spin too little it bogs. A good launch is hard it means the rpms have to be in the right place with the right amount of load, this means holding at a certain RPM does not work unless it is creating the right amount of load. Then there is how the clutch is released and that has to work in conjunction with rpms and load. Now if you get it off the line right there is still the issue of throttle modulation and traction, too little it goes slow to much it spins the tires. Then there is shifting, shifting has to be done at just the right rpm to keep it the optimum power range, luckily in most cars this means red line but not always. Then there is shifting quick, this sounds easy but when you are being measured in hundredths of a second every little bit counts.
Basically it comes down to fine control and getting things right where they need to be. It is not a case of just going for it, and the harder you go for it the better you will do.
Basically it comes down to fine control and getting things right where they need to be. It is not a case of just going for it, and the harder you go for it the better you will do.