!!! Idle issue! w/ complete test results. Solve the Mystery !!!
Here's the situation... Over the past year or so my car has had a rough idle and has been pulling a mere 14-15 in hg. Since this time the car has undergone numerous changes including a Vitesse MAF, Paragon 8mm wire set, ngk bpr7es plugs, new idle stabilizer valve, new coolant temp. sensor for the dme, plx r500 wideband, etc. The only actual attempt at solving the concern was the purchase of the idle stabilizer valve. All other purchases were unrelated in their intentions, however I feel it significant to post as it ensures other components are not the cause of this mystery.
Recently I purchased a used wiring harness that was in significantly better shape than mine. I checked every wire and found only a few minor problems, so in the end after repairs every wire had 0.2 ohms or less and all connectors are tight. One of the many reasons for my purchase of this harness was the wiring to the idle stabilizer had been poor with spots that were missing insulation: did not fix concern. Throughout this year I have thried endlessly to adjust the idle through the idle screw, the tps - both using the factory method of shorting the plug and just adjusting it without. WHEN THE IDLE IS SET OFF THE IDLE CONTACT ON THE TPS (AT THE SAME RPM) THE ENGINE PULLS 17-18 IN HG AND RUNS SMOOTH. So you would think it is a bad tps. Using the factory tests and testing each wire for resitance, shorts, etc. led me to no conclusions. The tps potentionmeter measures perfectly with no breaks, proper resistance where it should be, idle to wot. The dme also cuts fuel on decel when the idle is set correctly, however when off contact of course it does not. THE CAR WILL IDLE WITH 16-17 A/F RATIOS WHEN THE TPS IS SET CORRECTLY. AT THE SAME RPM ADJUSTED OFF CONTACT IT IDLES @ 14-15 A/F RATIO. I've had another suggestion from a reputable source that a weak ignition coil can cause only a concern at idle. Lastly, if there is a way to test the DME I am unsure, so any help would be appreciated. Clearly it is the final culprit. thanks :surr: |
It may be worth getting a new dizzy cap and rotor while you're at it. Are your plugs gapped to spec?
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Originally Posted by ehall
It may be worth getting a new dizzy cap and rotor while you're at it. Are your plugs gapped to spec?
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I think we need more data. How does the car perform otherwise -- under different loads and different RPMs?
Does this happen 100% of the time, or only when the car is warmed up? Have you pressure tested the intake system to eliminate vacuum leaks or bad check valves? Have you actually swapped the TPS out with a known good one? Have you done a diagnostic with a Motronic tester? |
Originally Posted by Van
I think we need more data. How does the car perform otherwise -- under different loads and different RPMs?
Does this happen 100% of the time, or only when the car is warmed up? Have you pressure tested the intake system to eliminate vacuum leaks or bad check valves? Have you actually swapped the TPS out with a known good one? Have you done a diagnostic with a Motronic tester? The intake has been tested and is currently leak free. I have not swapped out the TPS with a known good one because I have no source to try. I am making this post in an attempt to find the solution without making any wrong guesses. As far as a Motronic tester I am also unsure where to look. I am an Audi tech and am aware of their similar electrical systems in the 80s, however is there a generic Motronic tester that works on Audis and Porsches, or is this 944 specific? Thanks. |
Perhaps you can answer the following questions, it'll help eliminate possible problems.
- Are you using the stock cam? - Did you check the voltage between Red & Black at the MAF connector with Ignition on - Check for any voltage between MAF connector BLACK and Battery Ground terminal, both IGN ON & OFF. - Rotate the MAF some, does it make a difference? |
Valve timing?
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Originally Posted by fast951
Perhaps you can answer the following questions, it'll help eliminate possible problems.
- Are you using the stock cam? - Did you check the voltage between Red & Black at the MAF connector with Ignition on - Check for any voltage between MAF connector BLACK and Battery Ground terminal, both IGN ON & OFF. - Rotate the MAF some, does it make a difference? Also, now that I think about it I recall us discussing the idea that my injectors may be the issue. Do you think this is still a possiblity based on my current findings? From what I understood the same Siemens 55# injectors from one company to the next have occasionally proven to not flow consistently with the sets sold by others. |
Originally Posted by fast951
- Did you check the voltage between Red & Black at the MAF connector with Ignition on
- Check for any voltage between MAF connector BLACK and Battery Ground terminal, both IGN ON & OFF. - Rotate the MAF some, does it make a difference? Voltage between black and battery ground was 0.021 V Rotating the maf showed no results |
how are your vacuum lines? my car had a rough idle (wish i knew my vacuum readings as i have a gauge, just cant recall and i took the engine apart)... but anyways, i found a few cracked vacuum lines that were in dire need of replacement. a couple were completely broken, no wonder the car had a hard time starting at times!
You might want to take off your intake manifold (yes, i know, its a beast), but check all your vacuum lines to make sure they are serviceable. if they are hard, they are most likely bad. Give it a shot! |
Originally Posted by Loquat15
how are your vacuum lines? my car had a rough idle (wish i knew my vacuum readings as i have a gauge, just cant recall and i took the engine apart)... but anyways, i found a few cracked vacuum lines that were in dire need of replacement. a couple were completely broken, no wonder the car had a hard time starting at times!
You might want to take off your intake manifold (yes, i know, its a beast), but check all your vacuum lines to make sure they are serviceable. if they are hard, they are most likely bad. Give it a shot! |
Let me ask the first question that needs to be asked.
What is the idle speed? And you need a portable tach to be accurate or a digital datalogger because the stock vdo unit is not acceptable for speed setting no matter what the geniuses say. |
After this, assuming all the other checks you mentioned, you will need the leakdown to find out which valve has the potato chip under it. :)
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Originally Posted by special tool
Let me ask the first question that needs to be asked.
What is the idle speed? And you need a portable tach to be accurate or a digital datalogger because the stock vdo unit is not acceptable for speed setting no matter what the geniuses say. |
Originally Posted by special tool
After this, assuming all the other checks you mentioned, you will need the leakdown to find out which valve has the potato chip under it. :)
I am assuming that by setting the tps off idle, but at the same rpm, the engine will have more load and possibly assist in masking the concern as well? If not I am unsure as to what you are suggesting. By the way, I want to thank all of you that are taking the time to assist me in this matter. It seems the majority of my posts go unnoticed and this time I really need help! Thanks! |
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