333pg333

Just getting opinions of one v's the other. From what I understand they are virtually the same item that use the same sized pad on a similar sized rotor. The reason of differences was the purpose for which they were initially designed. Reds for a rear engined car 993tt and the Blacks for the front engined 928 GTS. So by rights the Blacks should be more suitable for us than the Reds but everyone has always gone.."OOHHH, Big Reds!!!" v's "Hmm Blacks are ok" So is it merely that because they're more expensive by quite some difference and they're red, that we tend to choose these over the Blacks? Also what sort of costs are out there and is buying 2nd hand a worthwhile option?
Thanks for any opinions.

Rich Sandor

They are not "exactly" the same.

If you want to mount 993TT Big Reds on a 951, you have to mount them upside down and then swap the bleeder screws, whereas you can mount the 928GTS Big Blacks the same way as the stock 951S brakes.

So, physically and mechanically, they are exactly the same, except for colour and mounting configuration.

Big Red FTW!

333pg333

That's right Rich so therefore an even bigger reason to go for the Blacks as far as I can see. However I'm asking the question basically to get a reason to buy the Reds over the Blacks.

pole position

The blacks are identical to the reds but mount differently than the 993 mount. The blacks are a direct bolt on . So are the reds when you "flip" them. If you would see them on a 993tt/C4S you would see what I am talking about. I guess that you pay more for the color because when the cars were new you could have optional yellow or "titanium" or black at extra cost so it makes sense that the parts continue with the same money making stream. AFAIK they are no longer produced due to worn out foundries and are being sold from a depleting stock. Who knows when they run out. There is nothing wrong with buying second hand if they are in good condition plus they can be rebuild. I believe that you have a non S car and it would be worthwhile to get the 996tt monoblocks instead with the proper mounting carriers. Probably a little more $$ but newer and stiffer technology.

Olli Snellman

Actually you can get used monoblocks cheaper than Big Reds/Big Blacks. I paid less GT2 six piston Monoblocks than i paid a pair of Big Blacks i had

333pg333

No I have a rest of the world (ROW) '89 with the Mo30 options and the S4 'Medium Blacks' lol. So the Big Blacks would be a direct bolt on. When you say that they're no longer made, what are the items that the Vendors are selling? Reconditioned 2nd hand ones? Lindsey have the Reds at $530 each and the Blacks at $380! Why the hell would I buy the Reds and are they new for that price?

333pg333

Olli I don't want to go for the 6-pot GT's that you have, but what about the Mk1 GT3's, are they a direct bolt on to my '89, and where do you buy these 2nd hand?
Does anyone sell these Mk1's in kit form with the adapters if they're required?

pole position

The vendors are selling from new stock but that stock is dwindling because they are no longer made due to Brembo's failing big black/red foundry forms which, my guess , they did not replace because of cost and hardly any return. Remember, monoblocks have been on Porsches, starting with the Boxster, since 97 and the 993 line were the last cars to have the "split" calipers and there production ended in 98. So that stuff is a good ten years old. Stoptech are copies of that Brembo/Porsche design with a added caliper bridge, come in red and are reasonable priced.

pole position

The MK1 GT3 are the same calipers as the 996tt ,as a matter of fact I forgot to mention in the above post that the rotors are the killer in terms of $$ when it comes to a 996tt conversion.

333pg333

Well I was exploring getting the whole system by PFC as they do the calipers, rotors, and pads themselves. http://www.performancefriction.com/pages/compounds.htm
I have been using their pads (01's f 97's r) and have been very happy with them but it's been very hard getting info out of them. I guess I'm just some small time customer rather than a Nascar race team. lol I would like to get something pretty serious as I'll have some serious power next month, but the Big Blacks may be the cheapest and easiest stop gap option. I would still like to see how easy it would be to get the later monoblocks on from the 996 onwards? Any kits out there?

Olli Snellman

MK1 GT3 4-piston caliper and GT2/markII GT3 6-piston calipers are identical what comes attachement, so it's difficult to fabricate adapter for your 951S-spindle

pole position

If you are prepared to spend some $$$ you should look into Alcons which are also monoblocks and have track worthy rotors.

333pg333

Olli does anyone make the adapter?
Poley I'll check out the site thanks!

Olli Snellman

Sorry, don't know a one who makes for 951S

Hoosier Daddy?

What about adapters for the rest of the 951s? Non S cars?