Antifreeze
03-21-2006, 02:20 PM
#16
Race Car
The evans stuff, isn't that exactly the same as running just propylene glycol? (a.k.a. low-tox antifreeze at most parts stores)
Or do they have some magic snake oil added to it?...
Or do they have some magic snake oil added to it?...
03-21-2006, 02:20 PM
#17
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In self-imposed exile.
Posts: 14,072
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
7 Posts
Originally Posted by toddk911
80% water 20% redline watter wetter.
03-21-2006, 03:10 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Zero10
The evans stuff, isn't that exactly the same as running just propylene glycol? (a.k.a. low-tox antifreeze at most parts stores)
Or do they have some magic snake oil added to it?...
Or do they have some magic snake oil added to it?...
this stuff is not mixable with water It runs at very low pressure
it boils at a very high temp... Hence no real pressure ....
see from website:
Evans Waterless Coolants are the ONLY 100% waterless automotive engine coolant available on the market. All Evans Waterless Coolants are a chemical blend that results in more efficient cooling due to a higher boiling point. The increased boiling point of the coolant eliminates the occurance of boil over, cavitation, and detonation. Not only do Evans Waterless Coolants not boil over, they do not freeze. At extreme cold temperatures the coolants contract and become extremely thick, not becoming solid and expanding like antifreeze containing water. Because Evans Waterless Coolants do not contain water electrolysis and corrosion are also eliminated. Every Evans Waterless Coolant requires the entire cooling system to be drained (radiator, engine block and heater core) and refilled 100% with one of the Evans Waterless Coolants. No need to add anything. Evans now has three different coolants to choose from depending on the application and use of your specific vehicle. Also available is a flush fluid for smaller engines without block drains.
NPG+
Evans NPG+ Waterless Coolant is the recommended coolant for all gasoline and diesel engines. NPG+ is a stand-alone lifetime coolant that does not freeze, or boil over. NPG+ controls detonation, cavitation, and is non-corrosive. Installing NPG+ requires the radiator, engine block and heater core to be drained completely and then filled 100% with NPG+. A free test strip is included with purchase as a guide to successful conversion. NPG+ meets or exceeds both the ASTM D 1384 corrosion test and the ASTM D 3306-94 specifications.
Boils 375°F @ 0 psi
Freezes -40°F
Viscosity 2.3cp @ 212°F
Surface Tension 44dyn/cm
$32.50 per Gallon
03-21-2006, 03:46 PM
#19
Race Car
Yeah, so it's non-aqueous propylene glycol.
That's what they say in their page, which is exactly what you can get in a jug labelled 'low-tox' antifreeze for half the price. IIRC Prestone makes a low-tox antifreeze.
I see no difference between the two yet.
All of the properties expressed above are true for low-tox antifreeze when it's not blended with water
If this is the case, then the specific heat capacity of NPG+ is actually slightly lower than water + ethylene glycol, meaning it shouldn't cool as well, but perhaps that is offset by the lack of steam bubbles.
The only problem I can see is that it becomes very thick in cold temperatures. I'd imagine it thickens before normal antifreeze/water freezes. Perhaps this could be hard on water pumps.
That's what they say in their page, which is exactly what you can get in a jug labelled 'low-tox' antifreeze for half the price. IIRC Prestone makes a low-tox antifreeze.
I see no difference between the two yet.
All of the properties expressed above are true for low-tox antifreeze when it's not blended with water
If this is the case, then the specific heat capacity of NPG+ is actually slightly lower than water + ethylene glycol, meaning it shouldn't cool as well, but perhaps that is offset by the lack of steam bubbles.
The only problem I can see is that it becomes very thick in cold temperatures. I'd imagine it thickens before normal antifreeze/water freezes. Perhaps this could be hard on water pumps.
03-21-2006, 04:56 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Zero10
Yeah, so it's non-aqueous propylene glycol.
That's what they say in their page, which is exactly what you can get in a jug labelled 'low-tox' antifreeze for half the price. IIRC Prestone makes a low-tox antifreeze.
I see no difference between the two yet.
All of the properties expressed above are true for low-tox antifreeze when it's not blended with water
If this is the case, then the specific heat capacity of NPG+ is actually slightly lower than water + ethylene glycol, meaning it shouldn't cool as well, but perhaps that is offset by the lack of steam bubbles.
The only problem I can see is that it becomes very thick in cold temperatures. I'd imagine it thickens before normal antifreeze/water freezes. Perhaps this could be hard on water pumps.
That's what they say in their page, which is exactly what you can get in a jug labelled 'low-tox' antifreeze for half the price. IIRC Prestone makes a low-tox antifreeze.
I see no difference between the two yet.
All of the properties expressed above are true for low-tox antifreeze when it's not blended with water
If this is the case, then the specific heat capacity of NPG+ is actually slightly lower than water + ethylene glycol, meaning it shouldn't cool as well, but perhaps that is offset by the lack of steam bubbles.
The only problem I can see is that it becomes very thick in cold temperatures. I'd imagine it thickens before normal antifreeze/water freezes. Perhaps this could be hard on water pumps.
In fairness I am not familar with Low- tox
The lowest temps I see here is around 33 degrees and that's a rarity
Regards
Ed
03-21-2006, 09:11 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 1,043
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Crazy Eddie
In fairness I am not familar with Low- tox
The lowest temps I see here is around 33 degrees and that's a rarity
Regards
Ed
03-22-2006, 01:24 PM
#22
Race Car
occasional?...
we get months of it some years. This year the coldest I saw was -31*C, and we had about 3 weeks of it, instead of 4 months. Very nice winter, but it just might last until august to get us back
I have been doing some digging, and it would appear that prestone low-tox is almost pure propylene glycol, but they then say that it has some special magical formula. This is kind of similar to what the evans guys are saying.
If I'm right, then you can buy exactly the same thing for less than half the price.
If I'm wrong, well, at least you won't be killing the cats in your neighborhood if your rad leaks
we get months of it some years. This year the coldest I saw was -31*C, and we had about 3 weeks of it, instead of 4 months. Very nice winter, but it just might last until august to get us back
I have been doing some digging, and it would appear that prestone low-tox is almost pure propylene glycol, but they then say that it has some special magical formula. This is kind of similar to what the evans guys are saying.
If I'm right, then you can buy exactly the same thing for less than half the price.
If I'm wrong, well, at least you won't be killing the cats in your neighborhood if your rad leaks
03-22-2006, 02:26 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
Zero, I like your train of thought, but if you could get the equivalent of Evans at half the price, don't you think it would be the worst kept secret amoung high performance car owners? I'd like it to be true, but I'm not willing to bet on it.
Also, I feel bad for the BS GM put Evans through, so I won't feel bad paying the premium to a company that has great ideas and products, but has been getting **** on for so many years.
Also, I feel bad for the BS GM put Evans through, so I won't feel bad paying the premium to a company that has great ideas and products, but has been getting **** on for so many years.
03-22-2006, 03:26 PM
#24
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Indy
Posts: 1,750
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"The "I work with propylene glycol and I see what it does" argument--
Can you use plain propylene glycol (PPG), or Sierra coolant, instead?
No.
If you run straight PPG or Sierra coolant in your engine, it will
gradually break down into a nasty goo that will really mess things up.
Those who object to using PPG in an engine are talking about this.
One of Evans' patents is on their inhibiting system that prevents
this breakdown. And apparently it doesn't gradually go bad like the
inhibitors in regular antifreeze. Evans has engines running over 300,000
miles on this stuff with no coolant change."
From here: http://will.mylanders.com/mc/notes/read.pl?file=64
I can't vouch for the validity of this source, but it came up on a quick search.
Also check this out: http://www.evanscooling.com/html/instructions.htm
Read where it talks about race car apps.
Can you use plain propylene glycol (PPG), or Sierra coolant, instead?
No.
If you run straight PPG or Sierra coolant in your engine, it will
gradually break down into a nasty goo that will really mess things up.
Those who object to using PPG in an engine are talking about this.
One of Evans' patents is on their inhibiting system that prevents
this breakdown. And apparently it doesn't gradually go bad like the
inhibitors in regular antifreeze. Evans has engines running over 300,000
miles on this stuff with no coolant change."
From here: http://will.mylanders.com/mc/notes/read.pl?file=64
I can't vouch for the validity of this source, but it came up on a quick search.
Also check this out: http://www.evanscooling.com/html/instructions.htm
Read where it talks about race car apps.
