porshhhh951

But, what if your not even sure there is a market for it yet. You start a thread to see if there is instrest. If people are interested and you start making them then you become a sponsor type of thing.

Well this guy didnt have that chance...his feeler thread was closed. I just wanted to know where is the line drawn.

How can you become a sponsor and shell out 400 bucks if you dont even know people will like or want what you are trying to make. This was one point brought up in the other thread that was never answered. So we asked for a slight change in policy...if the feeler thread go's well and it looks like you will be taking orders then become a site sponsor....atleast thats what I would do if I were in that situation.


Who knows maybe a mod contacted him and gave him that very offer and he refused for whatever reason saying he would never be a site sponsor... I dont know? Do you?

I just want these questions answered so I know where I stand as a user member or sponsor. I might want to make something in the future ect..all of this pertains to me. I just want to know where I stand in the eyes of the mods.

I dont see any problem is asking these questions. I am in no way cutting down anyone or trying to say they arent doing their job.

John D. obviously works his butt off...no one could say differently. I certainly wouldnt.

lart951

Let's assume I would like to develop a new product for our cars and profit from that . First of all "Out of respect" I would ask permition or at least information of the forum regulations and norm of conduct from the moderator just to be in order. It would be unethical to the other vendors that contribute to the existence of the forum to go ahead with such thing without the okay from John D.

dime1622

This is where I get confused. Your stickied post "If you are not a Rennlist Sponsor and Promote...." says this:

Thanks for the help in the clarifications, John.

mwc951

John & Jenn...........

Thanks for your hard work & dedication making the list what it is today!

Paypal sent (to help the cause)!

porshhhh951

agree but, your not john....my question is IS THAT ENOUGH? Is that all that has to happen. Lart you arent john D. Im not asking you the questions. I completely agree with what you are saying...I would do the very same myself...im left with the impression that it isint enough though .You still need to become a sponsor.

I would like to hear it from John...since he is going to know. Where is the line? Are feeler threads okay? If your doing a limited one prodcut run are you still required to become a sponsor even after you ask permission? ect?

f1rocks

I disagree.
His thread, "the guy" was far from just closed. It went on for quite a few days and there was ample interest to spark sales of something THAT HE HAD ALREADY COMMISIONED TO DO. He's going to make a set anyway.

As a matter of fact, if it works out, I actually agreed to sign on as a sponsor and ship stuff for him from the US so we could make it as affordable as possible. And my car is a track car so I don't even want a set.

It would be nice and has been acceptable to put out feelers without getting the dreaded reminder. But once you have established that, at a minimum join Rennlist and if your initial sales volume is good enough, tack on $5 on each one and become a sponsor.

I think the context of selling stuff is not "Garage Sale" one off items but heh like you said, I'm not John. When he gets off work maybe he can clarify that.

Thanks Rennlist crew.
Brent

porshhhh951

Ahhh okay great info. Thanks very much. So the guy just basically refused to become a sponser because he didnt want it to cut into his money? If you were going to handle that for him even I dont see how that was going to cost him anything.

Great info thanks for the post.

johne

porshhhh951,
Now I am getting really irritable, you sound just like me when I was 8 years old. In the 16 years since then I have learned some respect. John D. and Jen are two very kind individuals who are trying do something very nice for others. They are setting some rules in place so that they can continue to afford to provide the service. You feel that you are justified to nit-pick at the details of what he said, in a rude tone at that. That's right I called you RUDE. You do not go into a church, which is offered on the same pay if you like it scheme, and ask the reverend/priest/bouncing monkey in a rude tone to justify why they use certain policies to support their charitable organization. I know that it is true that churches usually don't allow you to sell goods on their property and John and Jen could make the same sweeping rule. However, they have decided to allow it if paid $375 for 3 months. If you don't like it, too bad. If you would like to offer some alternative system, then I am confident that John and Jen would be willing to listen. But that is the key that they are *willing*, they do not have to listen to anything you say. They OWN this board. They are OFFERING it to you to use in a slightly limited way, FOR FREE.

Do I sound irritable? Well that is because I am. Both you and Iceshark asked reasonable questions, but you were rude and abrasive about it. This is common in children who have not learned to be polite, especially when they are on someone else's home turf. But you two are grown up and have no excuse for you rude tones. I think that John and Jen should ban you both right now to teach you some respect. But they are probably too kind.

To reiterate, I do not feel that there is anything wrong with the logic of the questions that you have asked. However, your tone was completely unreasonable and you really should apologize to John and Jen as they are being very gracious to continue offering this service.

-John

IceShark

This is not talking about me BTW. Just to make that clear.

If I was going to keep doing this I would just charge people $25 more per set to cover the $1500/yr sponsorship. I jacked the prices up 50 bucks for copper and oil increases from last time. So another $25 probably wouldn't matter to the customer that much.

Fen

I haven't read all of this because I was going to keep out of it, but if you're talking about the light mod thread "the guy" did not refuse to become a sponsor in any post I read. What he said was that he had commissioned the work and he'd like to share the costs of development with people. If/when he broke even if there were more customers he wanted to put them in touch with the company he has doing the work.

Now I don't know (nor care much) if that contravenes the charter or not but unless I missed something (and I read the whole of the locked thread) to say he refused to become a sponsor is misinformation.

dime1622

so what we really need to know is how to set these up then:

- at what point does one need to be a sponsor? for discussion of ideas, or actual sales? i think discussion should be left free, and taking orders should require sponsorship

- what is the total that must be paid? as i brought up above, we don't know whether you owe $1500 or just $375, because John has said both. i, too, brent, would agree to pay sponsorship costs for someone else as long as my third-party sales covered it.

f1rocks

He, the light guy, hasn't refused to become a member or sponsor. He is committed to getting the lighting project done. Initially for himself then offer it to others. I think he did say he was going to eventually join up either as a sponsor or as a member at the least. My disagreement was that he didn't get ample "input" that the lights would sell. I think that having the thread open for a few days generated the interest that he needed.

Sorry Porshhh if that was confusing. He didn't refuse anything. But he DID get ample interest. And I offered to help just to keep the costs low for you guys remember that when I need a spare part now!!!!

Sam Lin

John, addressing one specific point:

I was under the exact same $1500 sponsorship impression. Quoting your stickied sponsorship post, 125/mo for not less than one year, comes out to $1500. If that's not the intent, please reword the policy. I know a few people who have been turned off of even trying to sell products on here for the same misunderstanding in pricing and policy.

Sam

Red1

I think his feeler thread was pretty positive. However, I have a real issue with how it was closed. Not THAT it was closed, but the fact that his initial post - where he detailed his intentions - was overwritten by the moderator. The rules he was accused of violating were pasted over his post, and I disagree with that tactic. Not that my opinion matters squat, of course.

At this very moment, there is a feeler thread on the "main" 944 board about a splitter for n/a 944s. The initial post is from April, I believe. There is no mention in the thread of approval from site admin. Can someone please explain to me why that thread remains intact and open? Or are we selectively enforcing the rules these days? I had never posted to the thread about the headlights from the UK, I was simply interested in following the development.

In my time here at rennlist, I have tried to avoid wading into most of the e-drama that erupts from time to time. However, we had a real innovator here by username "future", and I am concerned with how he was handled.

So there, I've said my piece. If you read it, thank you. I've always considered this site the "real" Porsche Club, and I've made many friends solely because of this site. I appreciate what John and Jenn do. Thank you.

JDeitz951

You must be, you called Jen Jane. But you're from California, so there.


You may resume bickering now.