DanaT

The biggest problem with getting off the line here, is that off-boost perforance REALLY sucks and with thing air it takes a bit to get the turbo spooled up. I can't hit max boost on 1st gear.

Also just doing some quick "math" to get from 103mph trap speeds to 110 would require about 60 more actual real world horsepower. The is like adding 75hp at sea level. Not an easy task. Using the NHRA correction factor for 5500ft of 1.0731 for mph, that mean that a corrected mph for my car is right around 110.5mph.

As I meantioned thing air makes off-boost performance horrible and really bad lag. The car has much less lag when I drove it in Texas than it does in Colorado. To make more power, I really need a bigger hot side (have a K27/6). That will make spool-up worse. Adding maximum power will really hurt low power, especially at high altitude. I am affriad that am already running my turbo at too high of a pressure ratio (12.5+19/12.5 = 2.52 pressure ratio) compared to a comprable boost at sea level of 16psi (pressure ratio 14.5+16/14.5 = 2.10 pressure ration). Does anyone have a K27/6 map so that I could verify my theory.

Everything is a compromise. I hate compromises.

-Dana

NZ951

I typically GOT 105mph trap speeds and could not get lower 60's than 2.3-2.5. The line is killing me. Rear tranxaxle cars are much harder to launch. Ask an Alpha driver. I typically wheelspin. I need to address my launch technique... I dont think a 951 will EVER get in the 1's in the 60 ft without huge tyres and an expert drag racer. A very low 2 (2.0-2.2) with a trap of 105-110 would get a very high 12 to very low 13.

Dark Lightning

#1 - First gear is useless anyway and for 2wd traction reasons it might be better to have limited boost.

#2 - Turbos for the purpose of drag racing don't spool until 3/4 of the way to redline (or more.) You're never below 4000 rpms anyway so who cares?

#3 - In case no one mentions it, THE K26 IS NOT A DRAG RACING TURBO.

porshhhh951

all good points made here. The 26 isint a drag race turbo. Andrew is right about water injection and that mechinac was prolly trying to get outta looking stupid. So instead of saying he doesnt know how to install one or work with one...he just says they damage the car and poof...problem solved owner now doesnt want water injection.

Dana dark already made a good point about spool up. In drag racing if you launch right and have good traction it really isint a issue. I launch at about 3200 hook and go full throttle. I am instantly into boost and there is no looking back. The 1st to 2nd shift is trickly...obvisouly....you dont want to spin. BUt, I woudnt worry about not getting full boost in 1st...if you launch good and hook good 14-15psi on a decent turbo is going to be more than enough to pull you off the line quickly.

DanaT
Also just doing some quick "math" to get from 103mph trap speeds to 110 would require about 60 more actual real world horsepower. The is like adding 75hp at sea level. Not an easy task.

true but very doable.

Helstrm

I would install it myself along with the rest of the engine build. Just deciding if it is worth it or not.

NZ951

Do it, but be scientific about it.

Helstrm

I will do it but I will make sure I do plenty of research. I will go dual stage..

NZ951

Good boy.

Helstrm

Well it will be a couple of months before I get the kit anyway. Have a lot of work to do before hand. Next weekend I am changing out my brakes and suspension for a full turbo setup,... Then the week after that we are prepping the car for paint. Then we start putting the engine back together. Oh and I have to put the interior back together before I drop the engine in... Oops and I almost forgot,.. We still have to fabricate the headers, crossover and downpipe.... DAMN I have a lot of work to do...

Robby

This is turning into a cool post- when I launch my car (& I don't do it often, but, I've run 14.4's @ 103 on G-Tech & did really soft launches & granny shifts- my 0-60 was 5.9 IIRC- I would start b/t 3200 & 3400 & I would let the clutch out pretty fast, but, not just drop it- I would come out of the hole pretty damn hard & I would spin the tires halfway through 1st, but, that's the only way to do it- Lot's of people aren't aware of it, but, you NEED wheelspin sometimes- obviously too much of it will become a detrimient, but... think of AWD cars like 400HP modded Mitsobishi Eclipse & 300HP Audi A4's, etc- they will run faster 0-60 times in the WET than on dry.... why? B/c they cannot sprin at all on dry & the engine bogs ever so slightly... I've got a good article that showed this- SC IIRC- compared AWD to FWD to RWD.... anyway, I've always wanted a good street driven 951 that was capable of high 11's... to be able to beat a 993TT S....


BTW- why is a transaxle car harder to launch than regular transmission RWD? Also, the 51/49 weight dist of our cars does not seem bad at all when compared to Mopars, etc... The rear rates, tire pressures, etc can hurt, but.... The 968 M030's had 49/51 weight dist & closer gearing- silly gearing for street, actually... they could be better, but, not enough TQ/HP unless you drop a modded 951 engine in it OR turbo the 3.0...

The little Shelby GLHS- those were pretty quick- they were ~15.2 @ 1/4- still, ugly econobox cars... burn his ***....!

About the gearing of the 951- the Turbo ran ~14.5 @ 1/4 & the Turbo S always seemed to run 14.2, BUT, the factory said 13.5- this was obviously not possible- consider the HP/weight of the 3150lb car... BUT- C&D tested one that was a customers car- had been specially ordered w/3.65 FD instead of stock 3.36- might want to look into this if serious about this stuff- that car ran the same 0-60 of 5.5 as all Turbo S's b/c of the early shift into 3rd, BUT, it ran a 13.9 @ 1/4- 3/10's quicker w/no other changes... It DID redline @ ~145mph though, instead of the stock 167. The 968 is the better trans, from what JME & other bad-*** builders say- it's stronger, but, also slightly heavier- it can handle more TQ AND the extra weight, is, of course, in the right place- part of the reason the 968 had better weight dist anyway... It's gearing (redline) is as follows: 1st- 40, 2nd- 63, 3rd- 88, 4th- 114, 5th- 139, 6th- 153, whereas Turbo S was: 1st- 40, 2nd- 67, 3rd- 99, 4th- 134, 5th- 167. this being stock w/stock RD, etc... Anyway, i've always wanted the 968 tranny w/custom gears- to get about what the Turbo S had, BUT, w/taller 6th on top- I'm wanting an S2 5th now, to get ~180 instead of 167- the NA 5th would give ~193 or so & be too much of a hole I'm afraid. I just don't have enough $ to get that 968 tranny in there w/4 custom gears @ $900/ea & then still have to make the speedo work..... Anyway, sorry for the tangent- was going to say, you COULD use the 3.65 FD & use the .778 S2 5th gear instead of stock 5th & get a little more crusing top gear cheaply & efficiently while still having a 4th gear capable of ~117mph traps (w/3.65)- I would bet the 5th would then be worth ~156 or so, so, you wouldn't lose MUCH crusing speed, but, gain a lot in the lower gears, OR, could even slap an NA 5th & get another 14mph or so out of the top gear, albeit w/a large hole, but, you'd have a good crusing gear & the right first 4 for dragging.... just thinking into a keyboard....

Funcrusher

I personally dont like launching the 951,its just..I dont know it simply isnt made for it,lol.
On the drag strip it runs decent,we ran a 14.1 @ 107mph the trap was great,but the time was horrible. that was with a dyno of 260rwhp and 300tq on 16psi with basic modifications.
Running on the highway was great though, with the top end acceleration proving it self against a couple of fast cars out here in miami.
Off Topic for a second,but Speaking of launching,I wanna build DSM because I've seen a couple 500-700hp talons running around lately and those things are INTENSE out the hole on both the street and the track.
Back to boost,with proper support modifications and constant surveillance you can run 20 psi on a daily driven car without much concern,though if you can have a beater and keep the sports car for the weekend,or if you really have money have a fast car for the daily,and a faster car for the weekends,than a faster one for the track
But what I wanna know is..whos gonna be the first to take a 944 Turbo into the 10's and still drive it on the street?

Dark Lightning

I personally ran several 1.61x and 1.62x 60' times with my AWD Talon on Bridgestone S-03's (all season street performance tire).

DON'T EVER RACE AN ALL WHEEL DRIVE CAR FROM A DEAD STOP.

You will only make the rest of us look bad and we will do our best to pretend we don't know you.

toddk911

"Porsche built is reputation on track racing and therefore thats where all of its technology lies"

But it also has done plenty of marketing over the decades of it's 0-60 times; which is the hardest/roughest part of the 1/4 mile; i.e the launch!!

toddk911

"But what I wanna know is..whos gonna be the first to take a 944 Turbo into the 10's and still drive it on the street?"

Beefed up rear end, bad *** clutch and about 450whp would be pretty close and not a whole bunch of money to do it.

I know Tony G and a couple of other have run high 11's with 400+whp and I think stock rear ends.

Funcrusher

Ha,Dont worry Im not racing any Awd car from a dead stop in a 944 anytime soon,,maybe in a 1000hp skyline or evolution motorsports 996 though
However,I beilieve there is a guy on rennlist ( or was ) with 500+ rwhp( not a powerhaus creation) who is running high traps (135+) I just forgot his username and probably is doing 10's or low 11's as well.
On our previous 951,we ran a 2.6 60 ftr ( yes extremely slow,but still trapped that 107) with a proper launch,the car would be well faster,and as I said though 14 seconds on the track,it ran with 12 second cars on the street and beat most of them.
So the 944 turbo is an excellent machine in many environments,but just wasnt built for hardcore drag racing,which in essence would make the car boring to many.


Off Topic..Dark lightning you may like this..
(If you dont like street racing,change the channel)
For those that have nothing else to do..

http://racerubber.com/kingofstreets2.mov

Summary : a "Pretty quick" talon,vs a "750rwhp" supra,now that is a launch
Charles'