Water Injection/Nitrous/Drag Racing Etc
03-31-2005, 04:32 PM
#16
Race Car
The CF: SAE means this is SAE corrected. This is the commonly accepted correction, there is also standard correction (which John posted with his "K26/6").
F1 used to run water injection did they not?
F1 used to run water injection did they not?
03-31-2005, 05:15 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I looked at nitrous briefly 
Water injection seems to run similar risks (nozzle sticking open...blah blah blah), but nitrous can provide a bigger explosion when things do go wrong. If you look at the NOS website you'll see some info explaining how nitrous also cools the cylinder when injected. IMHO this is like water injection with benefits.
Wet systems are a lot better from what I have seen on my friends cars. Please do a nitrous setup and let us know how it goes. I don't have the funding or cajones at this time.
Water injection seems to run similar risks (nozzle sticking open...blah blah blah), but nitrous can provide a bigger explosion when things do go wrong. If you look at the NOS website you'll see some info explaining how nitrous also cools the cylinder when injected. IMHO this is like water injection with benefits.
Wet systems are a lot better from what I have seen on my friends cars. Please do a nitrous setup and let us know how it goes. I don't have the funding or cajones at this time.
03-31-2005, 05:30 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: GA
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by daniel951
Update
just got off the phone with the dyno company and they said this is already calcuated for our altitude so i actually would be making more power at sea level.
just got off the phone with the dyno company and they said this is already calcuated for our altitude so i actually would be making more power at sea level.
03-31-2005, 06:16 PM
#21
Race Car
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Pueblo,CO
Posts: 3,591
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by shaheed
maybe i'm misunderstanding, but wouldn't the fact that it's SAE corrected mean that you would dyno at approx the same numbers at sea level??
03-31-2005, 06:41 PM
#22
All dynojets correct for altitude, pressure and temperature with correction set to "SAE"
If you dyno at 345 in RI. on tues, you will dyno at 345 in Denver on Wednesday - if both correct to SAE.
If you switch to "uncorrected" - you will get actual wheel HP.
UNCORRECTED DOES NOT NT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MEAN CRANK CRANK CRANK CRANK hp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Uncorrected - you will get more power at 32 degrees than at 80 degrees
If you dyno at 345 in RI. on tues, you will dyno at 345 in Denver on Wednesday - if both correct to SAE.
If you switch to "uncorrected" - you will get actual wheel HP.
UNCORRECTED DOES NOT NT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT MEAN CRANK CRANK CRANK CRANK hp!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Uncorrected - you will get more power at 32 degrees than at 80 degrees
03-31-2005, 06:43 PM
#23
Pro
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: S. Florida
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bravo, go for it, but you are going to need some serious parts upgrades.
I assume you are not screwing around and are considering building 6-700 + hp. Go smoke some of those rice burners and send me a video.
Everything from the clutch back would need an upgrade. I asked the 700 hp question two weeks ago and the most helpful response was from CW that said go for a 931 transaxle.
As far as the motor, if you can steer clear of detonation, the cylinder pressure is going to be your biggest problem, IE blown head gaskets, unless you oring it. Nitrous even when it is set up perfectly hits super hard.
I had a friend with a 69 camaro big block, new Centerforce race clutch and a 250 shot, and he totally fried the clutch in about 5 seconds and he was on the interstate when he hit the button.
This is one type of build where you need the best fuel control and if it were me i would have an exhaust temp probe in each port for data logging, just to make sure you don't melt your pistons. 1650 F and you are done. One mistake with nitrous and you could pay for a tec III.
I have recommended it several times here, but everything is so much more critical with nitrous, I would install a tecIII or some equal FI system. The Tec III can control nitrous. Also I would probably run dual injectors. Call Fred and ask him about it.
Oh also some titanium valves would not hurt, and maybe some carrello rods.
I assume you are not screwing around and are considering building 6-700 + hp. Go smoke some of those rice burners and send me a video.
Everything from the clutch back would need an upgrade. I asked the 700 hp question two weeks ago and the most helpful response was from CW that said go for a 931 transaxle.
As far as the motor, if you can steer clear of detonation, the cylinder pressure is going to be your biggest problem, IE blown head gaskets, unless you oring it. Nitrous even when it is set up perfectly hits super hard.
I had a friend with a 69 camaro big block, new Centerforce race clutch and a 250 shot, and he totally fried the clutch in about 5 seconds and he was on the interstate when he hit the button.
This is one type of build where you need the best fuel control and if it were me i would have an exhaust temp probe in each port for data logging, just to make sure you don't melt your pistons. 1650 F and you are done. One mistake with nitrous and you could pay for a tec III.
I have recommended it several times here, but everything is so much more critical with nitrous, I would install a tecIII or some equal FI system. The Tec III can control nitrous. Also I would probably run dual injectors. Call Fred and ask him about it.
Oh also some titanium valves would not hurt, and maybe some carrello rods.
03-31-2005, 06:56 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Daniel, actually looking at your dyno graph is does show that its corrected. Look at the line right before above max power at the bottom. You see the SEA: 1.25.
That means that you had an SAE (not Std) correction factor of 1.25 applied to the run. That mean that you take 351.22 and divide by 1.25 to get 281rwhp actual that you put down.
Me personally an not convinced that correction factors are approriate for turbo or nitrous vehicles.
But, you make right around 280hp as was my initial guess. You might be able to tell that I have done some dyno work and drag racing at high altitude...
-Dana
That means that you had an SAE (not Std) correction factor of 1.25 applied to the run. That mean that you take 351.22 and divide by 1.25 to get 281rwhp actual that you put down.
Me personally an not convinced that correction factors are approriate for turbo or nitrous vehicles.
But, you make right around 280hp as was my initial guess. You might be able to tell that I have done some dyno work and drag racing at high altitude...
-Dana
03-31-2005, 06:59 PM
#26
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: GA
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by daniel951
not according to Dana? He said i would be making 280rwhp here as me making 350 at sea level? either way iknow i am making great power.
03-31-2005, 09:30 PM
#28
Porsches really are not ment for drag racing. They can be draged yes, ive even dragged my car a couple of times, and there are much much better options. Porsche built is reputation on track racing and therefore thats where all of its technology lies. If i wanted a drag car i would seriously want to get a mustang or camaro. Partly because my friend has a cobra that he modifed a bit and is putting out over 500rwhp and 550rwtq. Not to mention that the tourqe curve on his dyno chart is 
, it looks like a square, almost immediatly is has all its tourqe. Put 335 drag radials on it and now you have a car that goes 0-whatever in a blink from a stop. Considering the cars total is around 40k... that means way cheaper "go fast". Hence why porsche makes a poor canidate for dragging. When people say its better to get a mustang or camaro is not always a mockery or a bitching, its just plain fact that american muscle cars a amazing for draging. There is no replacement for displacement when it comes to getting alot of power really quick.. (like as in 1000-1500rpm having litteraly all your power.)
, it looks like a square, almost immediatly is has all its tourqe. Put 335 drag radials on it and now you have a car that goes 0-whatever in a blink from a stop. Considering the cars total is around 40k... that means way cheaper "go fast". Hence why porsche makes a poor canidate for dragging. When people say its better to get a mustang or camaro is not always a mockery or a bitching, its just plain fact that american muscle cars a amazing for draging. There is no replacement for displacement when it comes to getting alot of power really quick.. (like as in 1000-1500rpm having litteraly all your power.)
03-31-2005, 11:58 PM
#29
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,258
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Daniel,
I here what you are saying about claiming corrected hp. That is what everyone does and it make it a "level playing field". However, do not make the mistake of assuming that your car will peform at altitude with those types of numbers. If you do a "calculation" (estimimation or even WAG) to figure out how fast you will be, you will be way off. Are you gonna run at the NHRA import nationals in June?
To others, I agree that there are better cars for drag racing, but a 951 can be drag raced if a Civic can be. I mean, if you go to the import drags, actually a 951 is one of the better setup cars.
I have a nitrous system that is tormenting me. I think a small shot would work ok. I will ponder it. Or maybe I should just stick to actually going fast when I drag race and forgettabout the 951. It is safer though.
-Dana
I here what you are saying about claiming corrected hp. That is what everyone does and it make it a "level playing field". However, do not make the mistake of assuming that your car will peform at altitude with those types of numbers. If you do a "calculation" (estimimation or even WAG) to figure out how fast you will be, you will be way off. Are you gonna run at the NHRA import nationals in June?
To others, I agree that there are better cars for drag racing, but a 951 can be drag raced if a Civic can be. I mean, if you go to the import drags, actually a 951 is one of the better setup cars.
I have a nitrous system that is tormenting me. I think a small shot would work ok. I will ponder it. Or maybe I should just stick to actually going fast when I drag race and forgettabout the 951. It is safer though.
-Dana
