OT: how long befor the FIA completly screws up F1?
03-09-2005, 03:07 PM
#46
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There is a big difference between everything now and 20 years ago, what is the point? Point is still valid 220 to dead stop at wall is as deadly as 210. If anything the safer barriers, CF, HANS devices, etc should be a reason to speed it back up. Not try to slow it down.
The problem is that not only Ferrari and Toyota were winning. Ferrari has the best driver, best tire setup, and best chassis. How many seconds/wins did Rubens have last year? How about Eddie? Set aside everything else and Michael is the reason Ferrari were winning. Toyota has a huge budget but it hasnt translated into wins. You arent dealing with PCA racing here.
I have watched F-1 for at least 12 years. When I lived in England I watched more religiously as there was less getting up at 0300.
NASCAR is very watchable. It is BY FAR the most engaging form of televised racing. There is a reason it has so many fans, it is entertaining. F-1 is more advanced, is all road courses, but is dull as hell. Last year you could have just started the race by announcing Shumi the winner, why even run? I often think that he lets other people win because it is getting boring!
What is more exciting? Going 4 wide and winning by 1/8th of a car length and having 2-3-4 within .3 seconds or a race where the winner finishes 30 seconds ahead of the pack? If you have working brain cells (and I know you do since you are a 951 owner) you know the answer is #1. Oval racing isnt sexy but it IS entertainment. That is why it is growing leaps and bounds and all other motorsports are dying on the vine.
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There is a big difference between everything now and 20 years ago, what is the point? Point is still valid 220 to dead stop at wall is as deadly as 210. If anything the safer barriers, CF, HANS devices, etc should be a reason to speed it back up. Not try to slow it down.
The problem is that not only Ferrari and Toyota were winning. Ferrari has the best driver, best tire setup, and best chassis. How many seconds/wins did Rubens have last year? How about Eddie? Set aside everything else and Michael is the reason Ferrari were winning. Toyota has a huge budget but it hasnt translated into wins. You arent dealing with PCA racing here.
I have watched F-1 for at least 12 years. When I lived in England I watched more religiously as there was less getting up at 0300.
NASCAR is very watchable. It is BY FAR the most engaging form of televised racing. There is a reason it has so many fans, it is entertaining. F-1 is more advanced, is all road courses, but is dull as hell. Last year you could have just started the race by announcing Shumi the winner, why even run? I often think that he lets other people win because it is getting boring!
What is more exciting? Going 4 wide and winning by 1/8th of a car length and having 2-3-4 within .3 seconds or a race where the winner finishes 30 seconds ahead of the pack? If you have working brain cells (and I know you do since you are a 951 owner) you know the answer is #1. Oval racing isnt sexy but it IS entertainment. That is why it is growing leaps and bounds and all other motorsports are dying on the vine.
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03-09-2005, 03:27 PM
#47
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The WRC is a perfect example of a series that has lost its popularity due to silly rules intended to make the sport "affordable"( read: make backmarkers competitive). That is now paying
the price.
Colin McRae was forced into early retirement due to a salary cap rule that the FIA implemented with the WRC. Now the only worthwhile driver to watch is Peter Solberg.
Lets hope that F1 does not follow WRC or IRL, CART into obscurity.
the price.
Colin McRae was forced into early retirement due to a salary cap rule that the FIA implemented with the WRC. Now the only worthwhile driver to watch is Peter Solberg.
Lets hope that F1 does not follow WRC or IRL, CART into obscurity.
03-09-2005, 03:41 PM
#48
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"NASCAR is very watchable. It is BY FAR the most engaging form of televised racing. There is a reason it has so many fans, it is entertaining."
180 mph around and around and around and around (times to many) is probably exciting, FOR THE DRIVER. But if you aint turning right you aint racing in my book.
I went to a IRL here at TMS and even that open wheel stuff was boring untill there was a crash. And the hour and a half spent trying to get out of the parking lot dealing with a bunch of drunk rednecks just left a bad taste in my mouth.
How can anyone say that breaking, turning left, and right, accelerating out of a turn, passing by holding on to your speed or however its done is less exciting than pushing the gas to the floor and turning left for 2 hours?
180 mph around and around and around and around (times to many) is probably exciting, FOR THE DRIVER. But if you aint turning right you aint racing in my book.
I went to a IRL here at TMS and even that open wheel stuff was boring untill there was a crash. And the hour and a half spent trying to get out of the parking lot dealing with a bunch of drunk rednecks just left a bad taste in my mouth.
How can anyone say that breaking, turning left, and right, accelerating out of a turn, passing by holding on to your speed or however its done is less exciting than pushing the gas to the floor and turning left for 2 hours?
03-09-2005, 05:14 PM
#50
Super Dave - if fan base is an indication then the VAST majority of folks can say that. If I want to see fun road racing I can go to a CVAR event 
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03-09-2005, 06:20 PM
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There is a big difference between everything now and 20 years ago, what is the point? Point is still valid 220 to dead stop at wall is as deadly as 210. If anything the safer barriers, CF, HANS devices, etc should be a reason to speed it back up. Not try to slow it down.
The restrictor is really the human factor... in a split second it makes a huge difference if youre doing 200 or 210..
The problem is that not only Ferrari and Toyota were winning. Ferrari has the best driver, best tire setup, and best chassis. How many seconds/wins did Rubens have last year? How about Eddie? Set aside everything else and Michael is the reason Ferrari were winning. Toyota has a huge budget but it hasnt translated into wins. You arent dealing with PCA racing here.
What is more exciting? Going 4 wide and winning by 1/8th of a car length and having 2-3-4 within .3 seconds or a race where the winner finishes 30 seconds ahead of the pack? If you have working brain cells (and I know you do since you are a 951 owner) you know the answer is #1. Oval racing isnt sexy but it IS entertainment. .
That is why it is growing leaps and bounds and all other motorsports are dying on the vine
Nascar is more a american thing, not so popular in Europe i think.
WRc is probably the motorsoprt that has had is highest boost in popularity for the last years.
03-09-2005, 06:32 PM
#52
There is no other form of motorsport growing in popularity. WRC is dying quickly, mostly due to their rules changes. In the US I fear there may not be many road circuits in 10 years. Thank God for PCA/BMW CCA/CVAR, etc.
NASCAR is certainly a North American thing, the attendance at the Mexico Busch series race was incredible. Certainly F-1 is more popular in Europe and Japan. Just a difference in culture, I presume.
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NASCAR is certainly a North American thing, the attendance at the Mexico Busch series race was incredible. Certainly F-1 is more popular in Europe and Japan. Just a difference in culture, I presume.
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03-09-2005, 06:46 PM
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The WRC is a perfect example of a series that has lost its popularity due to silly rules intended to make the sport "affordable"( read: make backmarkers competitive). That is now paying
For the last years WRC has had a huge boost in popularity.
Colin McRae was forced into early retirement due to a salary cap rule that the FIA implemented with the WRC. Now the only worthwhile driver to watch is Peter Solberg.
As for drivers in the WRC .. Loeb last years Champ, Duvall is one to watch not to mention marko martin and grønholm
.. Also Petter S brother Henning Solberg is competing in WRC this year, he has been unbeatable in the Norwegian championship for some years now. He was even better than Petter when they competed against each other .
so it`s should be an exciting season.
think they`ll be driving in Mexico forthcoming weekend
03-09-2005, 08:17 PM
#55
Yep, last numbers I saw were a dramatic decrease in TV revenue, sponsor dollars, as well as some other "market indicators." I would have to dig through the stack of crap on my desk to find the source. Personally, I LOVE WRC.
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03-09-2005, 09:02 PM
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Gentlemen we are missing the point here!......The FIA has done this RULE changing for as long as their has been the F1 championship. If any body has seen F1 long enough, you notice that most of the F1 teams and drivers has had it's time in the sun. Sure MS has had more time than other drivers, but still any driverwho is good enough can get there too. Back in the late 60's and 70's Ford engines with Lotus chassis were the combo to beat. Ferrari was then " And also ran" outfit. So chances are that this will continue to happen. And that is a good thing too. And we shound'nt compare NASCAR to F1, because they are totally different things
03-09-2005, 09:19 PM
#58
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Nascar is growing in popularity because north americans are for the most part a bunch of sheep; all following the herd.
If something gets promoted to death, we flock to it; if our neighbor buys it, eats it, watches it, then we do the same wheather the product is good or not. God forbide we can think for ourselves!
Nascar is now like the WWF of racing; it's also a little soap opera ish
The entertainment value is in the crashes and the personalities/conflicks of the drivers.
The cars are identical; no new innovations are encouraged (this was once at the heart of so-called "stockcar racing")
Some are called Chevys, some Dodge, etc; that's all balony, right there.
It's mostly luck if you're at the head of the pack when the checkered flag drops.
Somebody who understands how cars work, and understands what a driver needs to do in regards to a road course would know better than to say this was real racing.
If something gets promoted to death, we flock to it; if our neighbor buys it, eats it, watches it, then we do the same wheather the product is good or not. God forbide we can think for ourselves!
Nascar is now like the WWF of racing; it's also a little soap opera ish
The entertainment value is in the crashes and the personalities/conflicks of the drivers.
The cars are identical; no new innovations are encouraged (this was once at the heart of so-called "stockcar racing")
Some are called Chevys, some Dodge, etc; that's all balony, right there.
It's mostly luck if you're at the head of the pack when the checkered flag drops.
Somebody who understands how cars work, and understands what a driver needs to do in regards to a road course would know better than to say this was real racing.
03-09-2005, 09:21 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by TurboX
OK first off:
1- schumacher ended up in the gravel... With the no tire change rule he was screwed on the fact that gravel would be stuck in his 2000$ tires.
2- The crash damaged his car enough that they felt it would make since to take him out
3- The crash allowed him to put a new motor in for the next race
But i do not like what is going on this year will all the new regulations and the fact that only a certain amount (not very much) down force is a lowed this year.
BUT F1 is just fine compared to FIA World Rally this year... That sport has gone to hell which kind of sucks cause it was one of my favorite racing sports to watch...
-Ian
1- schumacher ended up in the gravel... With the no tire change rule he was screwed on the fact that gravel would be stuck in his 2000$ tires.
2- The crash damaged his car enough that they felt it would make since to take him out
3- The crash allowed him to put a new motor in for the next race
But i do not like what is going on this year will all the new regulations and the fact that only a certain amount (not very much) down force is a lowed this year.
BUT F1 is just fine compared to FIA World Rally this year... That sport has gone to hell which kind of sucks cause it was one of my favorite racing sports to watch...
-Ian
03-09-2005, 09:23 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by TurboTommy
Nascar is growing in popularity because north americans are for the most part a bunch of sheep; all following the herd.
If something gets promoted to death, we flock to it; if our neighbor buys it, eats it, watches it, then we do the same wheather the product is good or not. God forbide we can think for ourselves!
Nascar is now like the WWF of racing; it's also a little soap opera ish
The entertainment value is in the crashes and the personalities/conflicks of the drivers.
The cars are identical; no new innovations are encouraged (this was once at the heart of so-called "stockcar racing")
Some are called Chevys, some Dodge, etc; that's all balony, right there.
It's mostly luck if you're at the head of the pack when the checkered flag drops.
Somebody who understands how cars work, and understands what a driver needs to do in regards to a road course would know better than to say this was real racing.
If something gets promoted to death, we flock to it; if our neighbor buys it, eats it, watches it, then we do the same wheather the product is good or not. God forbide we can think for ourselves!
Nascar is now like the WWF of racing; it's also a little soap opera ish
The entertainment value is in the crashes and the personalities/conflicks of the drivers.
The cars are identical; no new innovations are encouraged (this was once at the heart of so-called "stockcar racing")
Some are called Chevys, some Dodge, etc; that's all balony, right there.
It's mostly luck if you're at the head of the pack when the checkered flag drops.
Somebody who understands how cars work, and understands what a driver needs to do in regards to a road course would know better than to say this was real racing.