Joe Jackson

It's possible that the cam might have a certain wear pattern due to a certain lifter and swapping that lifter to another bore may disrupt the pattern and cause greater wear somewhere else. By this logic though, if you are replacing the lifters then you should replace the came. And I know not everyone is doing that. And again, if that certain wear pattern really was occuring, you'd have to somehow keep all the lifters from turning in their bore while out of the car. Not really likely. So if you mixed them up, just throw them back in and it will be fine. Hell, I've done it twice now.

Oh, and for removing the cam, a puller is not the total answer. First, he'll need to remove the rotor and adapter (if there). Then, he needs to remove the 10mm triple square bolt while counterholding the cam with the 32mm "nut" (not really a nut, it is keyed the cam and is just there to allow you to hold the cam in place). After the bolt is removed, pull off the 32mm nut and then you can use a puller or some wiggling, wd-40, and patience to get the cam sprocket.

seb928s

It is good for them to go back in the same spot since they have made there home there going up and down. I have not seen a problem with putting the lifters not in the same place. It is good to have them in a milk jug or something sitting in oil. Some please show me what happens if you put them in the wrong spot I haven't seen a case. Note putting a bad lifter in any spot if same or not would effect the engine but putting good lifters in different spots I don't see a problem. Just have them sitting in oil the whole time they are out.

shaheed

that's just what i've always been told, because of the individual wear patterns. search the email list archives, i believe there are some posts about this.

seb928s

I have never seen a lifter damage anything by being put in the wrong spot. I haven't even heard of any failures from this aswell.

DAR951

Ignoring wear patterns rarely, if ever, results in failures of any "mated" parts.

What it does/can do, is make a small difference in how efficiently those parts work together to seal, lubricate, etc. Where it shows up is in the overall life and ultimate output of a motor. Usually not in any large way, but in small, subtle ways that can collectively add up... the difference between a really good engine builder and an OK one.

Joe Jackson

A really good engine builder wouldn't reuse worn parts. A 944 owner a budget does and as proven by many, can very easily get away with using lifters in any hole they chose. For things like pistons and rods, yes, put them back where they came from. A lot more going on there then with a lifter.

I wonder if the Haynes manual started this all. I know it says something about not mixing up the lifters. It also says to take your 951 to the dealer to have it's special 4 piston brakes worked on.

Epic2112

Well, I'm not sure I'm quite at the point where I need the puller yet, so I'm double checking. Do I need to remove the bit that I circled first, and then just use the puller on the gear, or do I use the puller on this whole thing? I've remove the allen bolt that's on the more polished looking tip (is that for the distributor rotor), and I've removed the small bolt that's on the less shiney part.

If I dont need the puller yet, how do I get that piece off, if I try to turn it the whole cam turns, how do I hold it?

Joe Jackson

Hold the cam with a 32mm wrench over the big hex. Grab the brass colored piece sticking out with vice grips or channel locks and twist and pull it out. Under it will be the 10mm triple square bolt. Remove it, then use the puller.

Epic2112

Ok I got that end bit off but I don't see the triple square bolt, is it possible some cars don't have one?

rcatherton

Epic,

Without the triple square driver you are done for the night unless your Pep Boys store is 24 H.R.'s. The cheesehead bolt looks like a hex bolt except it has 12 points hence triple square.

Good Luck!

Epic2112

Well, the problem is that I don't know where it is. I'll grab the socket tomorrow, I'm going to take a trip to sears and get craftsmen gear puller instead of the tools at pep boys, but where is the bolt? I'd just as soon skip buying the socket if I'm not going to need it. The only opening I see under that small brass piece is the one that you can see in the picture where the small hex bolt goes.

DAR951

Really good engine builders freshen/inspect motors/heads all the time w/o replacing every wear item.

They then reassemble them EXACTLY the way they were previously assembled. Unless there's some reason to do otherwise, parts like lifters are replaced according to a schedule that's independent of how many times the motor has been opened.

Epic2112

Ok, more questions

I never did find that 10mm triple square. If it's not something I'm going to have to search around for, it's not there. I went ahead and got a gear puller and started to remove the sprocket. It move a little bit fairly easily, maybe an 8th of an inch, and then it got difficult. Right now it won't budge, so I want to make sure that I didn't miss that bolt somehow. Is it ok to just apply a ton of force via the gear puller? I don't want to damage anything, even though it's all spare stuff I bought with the intention of messing around with, so I don't want to hurt the gear, or that camshaft, or anything.

Suggestions?

Remember this is a cam off of a 86 NA, if that makes a difference.

Joe Jackson

Looking straight at the camshaft sprocket (along the axis of the camshaft), do you not see a bolt head inside of the piece with big hex on it? That's where the 10mm triple square bolt is. If you can take a picture and i'll point it out to you. The camshaft sprocket should come off very easily with a puller assuming all fasteners are removed.

Actually, to make this easier, look for the bolt head right where you are probably putting the puller's forcing screw. You should see it then. Looks similar to an allen head or a Torx but is different.

Epic2112

You mean here?



I don't see anything, all that was there was this sort of wood textured stuff that crumbled off. Maybe the dismantler where I bought this from already removed it? Can it be removed when that brass piece is still on?

Also, I went to sears and carquest today, neither of them had a cheeshead or triple square, or had even heard of it, where do I need to go to get one?