Nashvegas

Noticed recently that my '86 Turbo feels a bit... soft. Think I need new shocks after 33 years. Car is standard suspension (ie no M474).

Car has ~40K miles on it, so looking to keep things stock-ish. I'd like to change to M474 suspension - M474 yellow koni's instead of the black stocker 86 951 struts/shocks.

Looking at the Porsche parts diagrams it looks like on 86 951's the springs are EXACTLY the same bt the standard and M474 suspension. Can anyone confirm?

And - Any other changes needed to M474 this ?

(and I know I could go further, want to keep it as it was in 86 but maybe a bit tighter with the M474.)

Thanks

black944 turbo

I went with the hacksaw Koni yellows on my car for the front and koni yellows on the rear. This made a tremendous difference and they are a great match for the car. If you want to go further, I would strongly recommend 968 m030 sway bars as well. I really love the way my car feels now (been on the car for 10 or 11 years).

I had very similar goals. I wanted my car to be as close to a factory sport suspension car as possible. It truly transforms the car.

dga

I also did the hack saw in front and coil overs in back. The originals I had, once removed, I saw 3 of the 4 were gone.

Paragon and Ground Control Systems offer good packages. I think around $1000 total price for all four wheels with coil overs. I went with 300# in front and the equivalent of 450# in rear, considering I kept my torsion bar (I think I needed 225# in back to make the total 450#).

1986 944 turbo, used on track and street.

black944 turbo

I neglected to mention, I did the adjustable ride height fronts and 200lb springs. According to Paragon this is a good match for the stock torsion bars and is very close to stock spring rates in the front.

zmf

dga --- I'm curious about how your car handles on track with those spring rates. I essentially have the opposite (450/350 F/R), after comparing notes with others who track 944s. I was skeptical, and thought the car would understeer, but it works. But maybe it's just what I've gotten used to.

To the OP, one interesting option is to try the Turbo Cup series progressive-rate springs on the front -- if you can find them. Comfortable on the street, and not bad on the track.

dga

I have about two years track experience and 1.75 of that year with this new suspension. I think it is "hard" on the street but not excessive. Not sure I'd want 350 or more in front. Car is probably 70% track and 30% street.

Regarding under/oversteering, I think it does understeer a bit. I have also been combating outer wear of from my front left tire. Suspension is corner balanced and I have -3 camber. Its "ok" now but not superb. Just got M030 sway bars and adjustable camber. I'd hope that with -4 and stiffer sways the tire rolling will be good. I contemplated stiffer springs and/or sway bar upgrade, but my "feeling" is that the suspension is stiff enough for me and maybe the sway bars will complete the picture, but they are still on my workdesk

Your 450F and 350R would seem like it really should understeer lots....what camber? what tires? Mine are 225/50 F and 245/45 R performance street tires... I just got extra rims too and now I ordered R888R's 225/45 and 245/45...

zmf

Back about a million years ago on this forum, about 30 of us compared notes on effective spring rates, and I was surprised that most, including those with the most track experience, ran higher front rates. This was also recommended by Racer's Edge. I was urged to 'just do it and not think about it", and it works.
You can trail brake hard and throw the car into a low-speed corner and sling the rear around behind you. (Usually you exit the corner front first.) I use 255/40 and 275/40 F/R, Toyo RR or Nitto NT01.

Flea3

I run 300 front, 350 rear with the torsion bars and M030 sways. That's about as high as you can go in the rear with torsion bars. I won't bore you with the math, but that's a perfect front/rear 273 effective rate with a 1.0 ratio. Its on the hard side for the street, a little light for the track, but I mostly use a Cayman R for the track, so I didn't want to go any further with my 951 which is more of a Sunday back road driver for me. I started out 300/250 which is probably a little safer. If you drive it everyday or your roads are bad I would probably drop to 275/225, or 250f but at 250f you have to address the rear somehow so the cost vs the gain of running 250 isn't good.

doolittle

DGA - did you reindex the torsion bars when you went to the coilovers in the rear?

Dan

dga

To doolittle: If by re-index, you mean adjust ride height.... yes it was done. I actually did not do it, but rather a corner balancing was done by my mechanic. He adjusted height to keep it close to stock but balanced, with my 4-corner coilovers.

** To All: BTW, I just installed bottom mounted GC camber plates. I also measured that the height difference was about 1cm (in terms of distance from strut mount to coil hat). So I lowered front coil base by that amount to compensate. I think good.

** Question: how about caster and camber setting? I put the GC caster setting such that its "in the middle". I guess good right? (means unchanged) Then, I left the GC camber setting the way it came, coincidentally -0.8 degrees or so. In theory I had -3, so now I have -3.8 I guess? Maybe that is what I want since I seemed to be missing some negative camber on track (guess will have to test there). However, I can really tell that my wheel is tilted (but its not super tilted of course). Is -3.8 degrees sufficient tilt that I can perceive it?