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Hi everyone, I've been having a good time with my 87 951 now that I have a decent suspension setup and good wheel and tire combo. But this winter it's going to be time to address the many leaks this car has. I'm not sure where all of them are coming from but this is what I think I'm up against:
-The oil pan and possibly rear main seal is leaking
-front of engine is leaking, so maybe balance shaft seals
-rear cam tower seal leaks
-oil cooler lines leak.
-There may also be some small leaks from the steering rack or PS lines
-The car is due for water pump and belts
-probably could use engine mounts as well
So, should I try to tackle these in the car or just pull the engine? I will probably do new rod bearings as well. Any suggestions or encouragement would be much appreciated!
Gratuitous pic, with the new ride height (25" fender to ground all around):
oil pan and RMS - pull the engine.
it gives you so much more room to work with, you'll have time over winter, less frustration in tight spaces, lets you clean more stuff and address "hard to get to" non-engine stuff in the engine bay too.
off topic but since your car is a little lowered would you mind measuring for me the ground clearance below your batwing, radiator frame, and crossmember?
2nd that, Do it once and with the engine out you have a greater chance of making sure everything is right. Easier to position gaskets, Inspect things. Put in a New Rear Main Seal, and pilot bearing. With the engine out. the engine compartment can be cleaned as well.
oil pan and RMS - pull the engine.
it gives you so much more room to work with, you'll have time over winter, less frustration in tight spaces, lets you clean more stuff and address "hard to get to" non-engine stuff in the engine bay too.
off topic but since your car is a little lowered would you mind measuring for me the ground clearance below your batwing, radiator frame, and crossmember?
The middle of my bat wing is broken out right now. Side portion that's still intact seems about 5.5 in., rad support about 6, crosmember 5.5, oil pan about 4.5 (yikes!).
Originally Posted by GPA951s
2nd that, Do it once and with the engine out you have a greater chance of making sure everything is right. Easier to position gaskets, Inspect things. Put in a New Rear Main Seal, and pilot bearing. With the engine out. the engine compartment can be cleaned as well.
Yeah, I'm definitely leaning that way, plus my OCD side wants everything looking great when it goes back together. I'm not afraid of big projects, but the engine pull (or drop, perhaps) on a 951 has me a bit intimidated.
Not to sound discouraging, and maybe my experience isn't typical, but I pulled my engine for a complete rebuild a couple of years ago. I enjoyed about six glorious months with no leaks of any kind, but now, it's back to the same level of leakage as before the rebuild. I used the correct Locktite sealant between the balance shaft covers and the block, and between the front cover and the block. Maybe I did something wrong, or maybe these engines just leak, no matter what you do. I hope you have better luck than I did.
Last edited by Cloud9...68; 10-20-2018 at 10:58 PM.
Not to sound discouraging, and maybe my experience isn't typical, but I pulled my engine for a complete rebuild a couple of years ago. I enjoyed about six glorious months with no leaks of any kind, but now, it's back to the same level of leakage as before the rebuild. I used the correct Locktite sealant between the balance shaft covers and the clock, and between the front cover and the block. Maybe I did something wrong, or maybe these engines just leak, no matter what you do. I hope you have better luck than I did.
Well, I appreciate your input. I'll have to take my chances, since at the rate it leaks right now, I'm worried I'm going to fail tech at an autocross or track day. But maybe it'll always be a bit a leaky. I've heard said that if your vintage Alfa doesn't leak, it's out of oil.
Usually in every major city there is a bunch of 944 enthusiasts. Most belong to the local PCA chapter. Get to know them, buy a couple of cases of beer and have an engine removal party. They will help you have the motor on the ground in an afternoon. If you have access to a lift that helps. You will also need an engine support bar.
1000% yes, pull the engine. If it leaks that much, you will most likely discover a lot of other differed maintenance that should be done while you're in there. Be prepared for the whole thing to spiral out of control and you end up doing a complete rebuild...ask me how I know ;-)
There are a few things you can do to lessen the change of any leaks recurring after a rebuild/reseal. Put the whole oil pan gasket on with rtv on both sides, do not over tighten the bolts, and nip them up after a few heat cycles as the loosen off as the gasket sets. You can also put rtv on the balance shaft housing end seals, and the AOS o-rings.
In the past year, I have changed the clutch and all the parts within incl. RMS etc, head gasket, oil thermostat housing seal, removed / repaired rad, and a bunch of other smaller things. I can see the oil pan seal needing service sooner than later as well as balance shaft area.
When it rains, it pours. It's 31 years old. I wish I had just pulled the engine and frankly, rebuilt it. I noticed thrust bearing play when doing the clutch--still in spec, but near the end. I look under the hood and see all kinds of little things--like heat shields--needing attention.
Looking back, how ridiculous I was lying on my back underneath struggling to fit this and that; finishing one thing only to discover another issue shortly afterwards; so much time wasted on the inconvenience and frustration of it all.
For the price of an engine stand, maybe rent a big arm crane, I could have enjoyed rebuilding properly, comfortably. And have it all new.
Thanks everyone for your input. That's pretty much 100% in favor of the engine pull, and I'm convinced. The thought of lying under the car for hours on end just to be unsure whether I was thorough enough cinches my decision. So, first new wheel bearings on the Boxster, then the fun begins!
I have been contemplating the same decision. Harbor freight has a hoist for $180 and a stand for $50.
Assuming i can convince she who must be obeyed to give up her side of the garage for a couple weeks (or months).. plan is to pull engine (out the top) do clutch and RMS, then put on stand for oil pan and bearings.
Will also address belts and water pump, and all front seals while out. Noticed a couple leaks from lower balance shaft cover...
Would also be a great time to figure out what I'm going to do with the 2.5 16v head in the corner.
Go to an auto body shop and buy yourself some "Pro Form" brand or similar Tar, Wax and Grease remover and or Final Wipe Solvent . It makes cleaning up the engine much nicer. A good spray bottle filled with this will also aid in washing away dirt, oil etc.
Believe me when I say this stuff works as I have cleaned the hell out of the car projects I am working on using the stuff.
You use these product to clean before sanding and painting. It does not have to be Pro Form brand just any manufacturer that us used for cleaning before sanding and or painting.
Look at post #60 on my thread. Some of the dirt/oil was on the parts for well over 10 years.
10-14-2018, 04:41 PM
Fix leaks in car or pull engine?
