Bmuldoon

When doing entire restoration paint jobs he's mostly worked with Lamborghini and Ferrari models and a handful of 911's and 944s. My mechanic (who'm I trust) has had a long relationship with this particular painter and has referred many Ferrari jobs to him. That said, I have listed out a number of specific questions I want him to respond to in detail before signing the contract and definitely made it a priority during our phone call today for photo documentation throughout the process both for resale and to allow the forum to follow progress.

Hope to reply to the group tomorrow with all of the specifics. Really appreciate the active input to help ensure this is done right.

Bmuldoon

Update:

My car is scheduled to kick-off on 4/30, in about 2 weeks. Once disassembly has begun, a full estimate will be provided including seals, fixtures etc.

Based on my conversation with him this morning the car will be sanded and blocked to remove as much of the existing paint as possible. Then blocked again. From there, an epoxy primer will be applied and then blocked again. Next is a sealer (sand and block again). Finally, Glasurit POR-027 will be applied followed by 4 coats of clear which will be sanded and buffed. Stone chip along the rockers will also be removed and re-appplied. Trunk compartment and engine bay will not be painted but door sills will.

Let me know if there are any additional questions I should be asking.

Thanks!

KVDR

Looks like you have a NA drivers side headlight - you should find a Turbo/S2 one before painting.

Bmuldoon

This was the main motive behind the cosmetic work - to repair this corner. It looks like it's the NA light but indeed it is 951 part nos and housing. Unfortunately there was an accident to this corner at one point and the repair was not done correctly.

Thanks!

KVDR

Ah yes, I was just about to edit my post. Maybe they used part of the NA nose and fender for the repair?

951and944S

Sounds good.

It's just a nitpicking preference so I wouldn't even bring it up with your guy, he has his ways, I have mine but personally, I spray what is called wet on wet with my paint over sealer and that doesn't mean the sealer hasn't cured, it means that I am top coating within the window recommended by the manufacturer for top coating without resanding.
One way is chemical adhesion, your guys method is mechanical adhesion (sand scratch bite).

Either is fine.

The sealer is a barrier coat not just a base for the color, so it doubles in the function that any chemicals, (some which can be chemically "hot"), intersections of unlike materials (original primer feathered to body filler) that can cause an edge lift, are for all intents and purposes "locked" in under the sealer coat.

In prepping with a final block sand on fully cured sealer, outside the wet on wet window, if you open the surface to some of the situations I described, the base coat (red color) can react with a remnant that would otherwise have been dormant and locked under the sealer..

It's just my preference to not sand my sealer for this reason.

Epoxy primer is neutral though, chemically mild and chances are your guy just has a procedure that is tried and true and that he is confident in.

Good luck,

And don't pester the guy.....

T

Bmuldoon

Yeah I feel much better about everything based on my conversation with him this morning. Coincidentally my mechanic called about an hour later and said he spoke with the painter and that I'd be very happy with the results. The painter was adamant about doing everything as close to factory as possible which is also what I wanted to hear. To your point I don't want to pester him too much and think we have most of the major questions agreed upon.

Now it's a waiting game.

audisport

"Stone chip along the rockers will also be removed and re-appplied". Skip the re-applied part. Keep it smooth on the lowers.

951and944S

Lol, I even put it back on race cars, even fiberglass fenders just like factory.

It works.

If you have ever taken down a factory mirror for repaint, it has a thin coat of rubberised coating for the same reason.

T

951and944S

The only thing I disagree with (but it's not my car) is the base/clear as opposed to the single stage urethane.

Every sharp detail of the body panels are more pronounced because they aren't dumbed down by 4 coats of clear on top.

Imagine an 1800s era very detailed carved moulding.
Over the years, every coat of paint makes the detail less and less.

Same with clear on base.

It's hard to describe the difference in text but the actual steel panel is what is shining when finished, not a dulled base (all base type paints are dull until clear) with clear on top.

Imagine if you had a very cool highly polished black lacquer coffee table with carved details.

Would it look better and the detail be more defined as is or if you laid a sheet of glass on top to protect it....?

Just a preference.

T

Bmuldoon

The textured part is actually one of my favorite features of the bodywork. I'm sure it's going to be a PITA to remove but love the factory look.

Bmuldoon

So would the difference here be to spray the Glasurit and then a single stage of urethane?

He also offered up a top level PPG option but I told him I wanted Glasurit if the cost wasn't astronomical.

951and944S

Glasurit was one of the first paint manufacturers, it means "Glaser", had to do early on with powdered colors to tint glass.

My memory is fuzzy, but I'm 52, so excuse that....., but yeah, like you, I went with Glasurit on my first 944T...., just because.

Truth told though, I later found out, or it happened way later on, the company Glasurit is under the umbrella of BASF, which, among a multitude of other products, makes their own paint line and also the brands LIMCO and RM.

All of which are excellent by the way.

I use RM when doing a customer's car because it's a higher line and it actually covers better when reduced because it is not a 1:1 dilution with the reducer....., most are, PPG, Dupont, whatever.

All my personal stuff is LIMCO, people may scoff if you research the name brand because out of all BASF, it may be the cheapest but don't let that fool you.

Let me fill in some details so you have a full understanding of what the differences are in what you are getting.

Both methods up until paint time are the same, with one exception and that is basecoat paint (which is not durable and that's why it requires clear coat to protect it) is so thin, a 400 grit prepared surface is borderline rough where single stage can spray over 400 grit no problem....as a matter of fact, it's suggested.

Ok, so car has been all prepped and is ready to spray.

Single Stage paints, available in enamel (SS enamel) and Single Stage Urethane (SS Urethane) is a multi component top coat that include 1)color, 2)reducer and 3)hardener (mixing clear).
The color is what it is.....the pigment that you selected.
Reducer is an evaporative chemical that in proper proportion (ex 10%) allows the three part combo that makes up your "ready to spray" mixture to have it's viscosity adjusted so it is atomized correctly in minute droplets.
Hardener is what it says, the other two components would remain open to the atmosphere and never really cure without it. It is thick and clear like the main component before mixing actual clearcoat material that you get on top of your paint when you opt for base/clear.. That is why it was referred to as "mixing clear" as it give the real shine to the 3 part single stage sprayable material. I also makes it hard and durable and also repellant to gasoline, oil and other chemicals.
In this option, you spray 1 time.....that's it. The film build per coat is equal to that of clear coat.
Once you determine the saturation of 1 coat coverage, you decide on 2-4 coats total, let it cure the recommended time, wet sand and buff to high luster.
This is why wet sanding single stage is referred to as "color sanding".
You never really color sand base coat because you do your high grit (1500-2000) wet blocking before buffing so on base/clear you are really sanding the clear that is on top of the base before you buff.

Ok, second option, known as base/clear, basecoat clearcoat, or in fact, identified by the two letter and symbol B/C next to the paint color identification number on modern cars.
If your Nissan Maxima was Nissan code 3UY41 and it was intended on being base/clear it would be notated as 3UY41 B/C.
Here is what you get.
The "base" is made up again as the pigment you selected. It is reduced (atomization) by a second component 1+ only 1 other component, usually in a ratio of 1:1.
There is no hardener in basecoat paint, just reducer, it's why it is fragile when compared to hardened single stage and cannot survive much more than a light fingernail scratch to damage or even completely remove it before it is top coated by it's "protection" layer. Clearcoat.

So, in simplicity, single stage includes the color and the component that makes it durable, hard and resistant to chemicals all rolled into one single sprayable product.

Basecoat is a fragile color only that must be protected by a second product.

Here is where body shops lean to B/C.
Base is dry in 15 minutes, it's ready for clear.
For production, it is faster.
If a defect is found during the application (a bug wing, a fleck or dirt), you wait 15 minutes, barely touch it out with 1000 grit paper, dust one single spray over it and proceed to clear.

The main reason most went away from Single Stage, is that while it is fine in solid colors (your red), in the world populated by more of a percentage of metallics, it has one big main shortcoming.

Well two, but both pertaining to the metalli
If you sprayed metallic silver in single stage and your application left orange peel, a defect, etc that you want to sand out then buff, you now have exposed metallic at the top and it can never look like the surrounding, non sanded portions.

2) Metallic and pearls are really just powder (I used to actually mix my own paints), so in a liquid base (SS or basecoat) the particles are suspended.
They need to be evenly distributed while drying (and while sprayed - error is called "mottling") to have a consistent look.
Base coat paints are thinner in viscosity and they dry faster because they are only color + reducer, the reducer being evaporative and goes fast. As a matter of fact base coat reducers are available in "slow", "normal" and "fast". Mainly for the purpose of matching spray time temperature conditions though.

So in metallic, which most production shops jobs are these days, they only need to worry about dispersing the metallic or the pearls while spraying, not while drying.

This last bit has to do with both type paints when pertaining to metallics and pearls.

If you lay a fender horizontal on a stand, it will never match an adjoining panel (say a door) if the door was spray while vertical mounted.

This is due to the way gravity distributes the metallic while still suspended if laid flat or vertical.

Ok, too long winded......but I know this stuff.
My father in law ran a body shop for 30 years and I had free reign of the place.
My first real job at 15 was wet sanding cars for a friend's brother that owned a high end paint shop.

I do this kind of work as a sideline to my daily job, along with building race cars, fabbing roll cages, building race engines, transmissions and automatics for street cars.

Yeah, I know, I have a lot to do and here I am typing.....

This why you guys see me disappear for months at a time and I have a post count in 17 years being around here equal to a two year member....,

Take it easy, I'll check back on you and make sure you understand what I posted.

My word association is a little bit iffy sometimes...!


T

Bmuldoon

T,
Appreciate all the background knowledge. It sounds like my guy is most comfortable/experienced in laying the base coat followed by clear. He said he doesn't like the car to look "too glossy and wavy with buildup" and instead goes for a finish that looks "period-correct/time capsule rather than show-car paint". Should I insist that he go for the one-time application of single-stage (color/reducer/hardener)? Or from an experience standpoint is this harder to get right and could result in complications/time/increased cost?

Feel free to make the trip up from New Orleans to paint my car ha.

gruhsy

Thanks for posting this it's great info for everyone. Especially the fender door bit. I was not aware or even thought about that before. Will be painting at some point one of my project cars myself. I use a SATA4000HVLP paint gun and SATA primer gun at work to spray Akzo Nobel Mil-spec Polyurethane paints and different primer brands on our products. This is nice info for when I spray my car probably Mexico Blue inside and out as the car is almost ready and gutted to the bare chassis.