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WTB: matter turbo cup roll cage

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Old 02-11-2018, 08:49 AM
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dillon410021
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Default WTB: matter turbo cup roll cage

Anyone have one?
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:15 AM
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Voith
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I'll have one too please
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:45 AM
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MAGK944
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Old technology, if you just want it for authenticity ok, but for a track car there are far superior options these days. Would be a cool thing to have though
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Old 02-12-2018, 09:41 PM
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951and944S
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Yep...., IIRC, I think the Matter cage is only legal in PCA racing if it is original to the car it came in and you have documentation to prove it.

I have a buddy with one in a 968.....doubt he'd part with it, but I never asked him.

What would an offer be on one, I'll pass it by him.

T

Originally Posted by MAGK944 View Post
Old technology, if you just want it for authenticity ok, but for a track car there are far superior options these days. Would be a cool thing to have though
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Old 02-12-2018, 10:28 PM
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You probably are aware but in case you or others here are not, Matter produced a bolt-in roll bar and a weld-in roll cage. The bar would fit either a 944 or 968 but the cage was model specific and also came in two versions, sunroof and non-sunroof. Matter hasn’t existed for some time, Wilfred Matter bought Safety Devices during the late 80’s and continued production there under the SD name. SD are still in business today and are a very respectable vehicle safety company. I bet they still have the jigs to produce Matter cages but I doubt they would as they now have a more technologically modern version for the 944 range. www.safetydevices.com

Anyway just some info and history.
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Old 02-14-2018, 06:26 PM
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I have an original 944 matter roll bar, the simple one without harness bar. Bought it in 2010 ,had it in my NA , sold it in 2012 and bought it back three months ago . This time will go in my 951 once its done.
I also found a site in germany that have for sale reproductions of both versions , but i didn't look to see if they have the full roll cage also.
leichtbauteile.jimdo.com/überrollbügel-käfig/clubsport-bügel/
That's the link but unfortunately seems to be down now
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Old 02-15-2018, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 951and944S View Post
Yep...., IIRC, I think the Matter cage is only legal in PCA racing if it is original to the car it came in and you have documentation to prove it.
Correct - some of the early Matter cages for 944s were aluminum (prior to 85-86). Later ones were steel but were made from 0.095" wall 1.5" OD mild steel tubing (like the ones in the Turbo Cups) which hasn't been legal for racing series for years. Needs to be 0.120" wall.
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Old 02-16-2018, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Oddjob View Post
Correct - some of the early Matter cages for 944s were aluminum (prior to 85-86). Later ones were steel but were made from 0.095" wall 1.5" OD mild steel tubing (like the ones in the Turbo Cups) which hasn't been legal for racing series for years. Needs to be 0.120" wall.

Hi Jim.

Didnt all Cup cars have aluminium roll cages? All euro cars did atleast and my car which is one of the last built in early -89 also has the Matter alu cage. Did you guys in north america get steel?

/Peder
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Old 02-17-2018, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PF View Post
Hi Jim.

Didnt all Cup cars have aluminium roll cages? All euro cars did atleast and my car which is one of the last built in early -89 also has the Matter alu cage. Did you guys in north america get steel?

/Peder
Didn't know the later Euro cup cages were alum! Yes, the US Escort Cup cages and the Canadian Rothmans cages were steel. 0.095" wall thickness 1020 DOM mild steel tubing. Best I can tell, the jigs and bending were identical.


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Old 02-17-2018, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Oddjob View Post
Didn't know the later Euro cup cages were alum! Yes, the US Escort Cup cages and the Canadian Rothmans cages were steel. 0.095" wall thickness 1020 DOM mild steel tubing. Best I can tell, the jigs and bending were identical.



Thats odd! Didnt know Porsche made different cages for the different series. My -89 cage looks identical to the one in your pictures. I guess north america had tougher demands on safety.
When I wheighed my Cup cage it was 19 kg lighter then the steel weichers cage I have in the 968 so atleast alot of wheight to be saved. In my films from the -89 season there are a couple of really bad crasches and the alu cage seemed to do a pretty good job. Ofcourse steel had been better.

always nice to learn new stuff!
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Old 02-17-2018, 11:45 AM
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Quick note - the cage in the pics I posted isn't mine. I was just pointing out the rust on the feet to confirm steel construction of the Matter cages on North American cars. This particular cage was out of one of the '87 944S Clubsports that was imported for and raced in the Escort Series. Former owner was doing some restoration work on the car at that time, and pulled the cage to repaint it. He forwarded me some pics as I was looking for details of the Matter design.

Unfortunately the original cage out of my escort/cup car was removed when the car was pro-raced in the 90's. And unbelievably it was cut into pieces that were used in the construction of the new weld-in cage that replaced the Matter. I have a few pieces of it in a box of spares that came with the car.

I had put some time into trying to find a correct Matter cage to put back in it, but gave up on the effort several years ago. I did locate one in Germany but the asking price was over $3k US and that didn't include the substantial VAT or shipping to the US. I didn't realize that it would likely have been aluminum, so I'm thinking I made the right choice to pass on it.

The 944 tub is pretty tough. I've seen a couple wrecked/rolled over hard, and the roof held its integrity and did no collapse down onto the cage main hoop. But if you hit hard enough to need the cage, steel would be a lot better....

Fairly sure it was an SCCA requirement even in the 80's to have steel. The Canadian Rothmans cars also had steel.

Anything on the label that indicates a different model # or material of construction?



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Old 02-17-2018, 01:49 PM
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To bad they ruined your cage like that! Silly things some do when developing cars!

My car also had a weld in cage when I got it since it had been raced professionally up until 2008. Luckily the Cup cage was still present so I cut the steel cage out before I rebuilt the interior and reinstalled the alu cage again. Unfortunately the alu cage had been repainted at some point so the sticker you refer to was lost. I have tried to find new with no luck. I also looked into reproduce them but they are complicated with both print and stamping details.
There should also be a identical sticker behind the seat between the 2 belt mounting points. From memory the only thing that differs on the sticker is that it says "Aluminium" on it and that the flouresent sticker on the cage padding says "Alu" Those stickers I have replicas of which I got from Aurelien in France who rebuilt his Cup car. He has a really nice video of it on youtube.

Anyway, nice to learn new stuff on these cars and good luck to the OP on finding a Matter cage. Yes newer and better ones out there but not as cool!
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