Bump steer kit - Elephant vs. Tarett? - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Notices

Bump steer kit - Elephant vs. Tarett?

Reply

Old 02-04-2018, 04:58 PM
  #1
Cloud9...68
User
Thread Starter
 
Cloud9...68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 774
Default Bump steer kit - Elephant vs. Tarett?

Has anyone ever used the Tarett bump steer correcting tie rod ends to bring the tie rod connectors back to parallel to the ground on a car that's been lowered? I emailed Tarett, and they think the ones they sell will work on a 944/968. They cost about $100 less than the ones from Elephant, which are really outrageous at nearly $400. Anybody come up with any other solutions that don't require welding? Seems like a fairly simple piece, so I would think something could be fabricated for a fraction of what the commercially available ones cost. Thanks.
Cloud9...68 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 06:11 PM
  #2
MAGK944
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
MAGK944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 4,451
Default

Imo the factory had the best solution by raising the inner mounting points on the control arms and raising the steering rack mounting points. They just then added a small extension to the steering arm outer joint and left the control arm ball joint stock. Here’s a link to it on my Pinterest.
MAGK944 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 07:43 PM
  #3
Cloud9...68
User
Thread Starter
 
Cloud9...68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 774
Default

Yes, I see how this is a very robust solution, but I don't weld, so paying somebody to fabricate and weld a pair of brackets to raise the steering rack mounting points would probably cost as much as a set of extended tie rod ends. I have the Racers Edge control arms which accept the fatter, longer ball joint pins, so that's s simple drop-in for me, which leaves the tie rod connectors to deal with. The extended tie rod ends are a simple solution, and are commonly used on other cars (Mustangs, for example), it's just frustrating to have to pay the "Porsche tax" for such a simple item.

Great photos, by the way!
Cloud9...68 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2018, 09:53 PM
  #4
rlm328
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
rlm328's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,315
Default

Originally Posted by MAGK944 View Post
Imo the factory had the best solution by raising the inner mounting points on the control arms and raising the steering rack mounting points. They just then added a small extension to the steering arm outer joint and left the control arm ball joint stock. Here’s a link to it on my Pinterest.
That is all good if you are using a manual steering rack.
I have been using the Elephant Racing Bump Steer kit for about 4 years without any issues.
rlm328 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2018, 12:32 PM
  #5
Droops83
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Droops83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 1,020
Default

Originally Posted by MAGK944 View Post
Imo the factory had the best solution by raising the inner mounting points on the control arms and raising the steering rack mounting points. They just then added a small extension to the steering arm outer joint and left the control arm ball joint stock. Here’s a link to it on my Pinterest.
I agree with the above, but it would require a fair amount of fabrication work, shortened steering shaft, re-routed P/S hoses, etc. Eminently possible for a professional race team, but beyond the capabilities and budgets of most of us. I'll probably look into it next time I have my car apart, though . . . .

As for the bump steer kits, I think you'd be OK with either. The Elephant kit appears to be the strongest, and the instructions say they fit the 944/98 with some "trimming." Tarett makes great stuff as well, and I was planning to upgrade to this one at some point. I actually found an old Weltmeister 911 bump steer kit on the shelf at my shop it fit perfectly and has worked well for several years (however, I did replace the original bolts with airframe bolts from Pegasus). If still available, the Weltmeister kit retails for almost as much as the Tarett one, so I'd at least go with that.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I should point out that these bump steer kits are only necessary on cars with longer ball joint pins or similar modifications to alter the front roll center (which the original poster has) . . . . the 944 tie rods stay relatively parallel with the control arms when the front is lowered, and installing one of these kits without roll-center alteration would likely result in a lot more bump steer than before . . . .
Droops83 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 01:07 AM
  #6
Cloud9...68
User
Thread Starter
 
Cloud9...68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 774
Default

I found another option:

https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD3479110...-lowering.html

It's much less expensive than either Tarett or Elephant's. Their rep is inquiring with their factory as to whether their kit works for a 944/968. I'll let everybody know what they tell me.
Cloud9...68 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 11:29 AM
  #7
Droops83
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Droops83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 1,020
Default

Originally Posted by Cloud9...68 View Post
I found another option:

https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD3479110...-lowering.html

It's much less expensive than either Tarett or Elephant's. Their rep is inquiring with their factory as to whether their kit works for a 944/968. I'll let everybody know what they tell me.
The rod ends should thread onto the 944/968 tie rods as the thread size/pitch are the same. I think the question is whether the cone-shaped sleeve at the upper end of each bolt is a proper interference fit into the bore of the steering arm of the knuckle . . . .
Droops83 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 01:22 PM
  #8
MAGK944
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
MAGK944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 4,451
Default

Originally Posted by Cloud9...68 View Post
I found another option:

https://www.fvd.net/us-en/FVD3479110...-lowering.html

It's much less expensive than either Tarett or Elephant's. Their rep is inquiring with their factory as to whether their kit works for a 944/968. I'll let everybody know what they tell me.
Good find but that looks like it’s for a manual rack.
MAGK944 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2018, 10:29 PM
  #9
Bill
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: A suburb of Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,055
Default

I run the Elephant Racing bump steer kit. It has worked well for me. As others have said it is a robust part and the ability to steer is not something that I want to loose. It was designed for a 911 which has thinner steering arms (951 is thicker), so what I did was take the thickest of the provided adjustment spacers (washers) and have my machine shop mill down the spacer for a minimal charge.
Bill is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 07:21 PM
  #10
Cloud9...68
User
Thread Starter
 
Cloud9...68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 774
Default

Originally Posted by MAGK944 View Post


Good find but that looks like it’s for a manual rack.
I think you're right. The rep from the company responded that they've never tried it on a 944/968, so they can't guarantee it will work. It looks like their company specializes in vintage 911 and 914 parts.
Cloud9...68 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-10-2018, 08:24 PM
  #11
Droops83
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Droops83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 1,020
Default

Originally Posted by Cloud9...68 View Post
I think you're right. The rep from the company responded that they've never tried it on a 944/968, so they can't guarantee it will work. It looks like their company specializes in vintage 911 and 914 parts.
No, those will work on a 944 rack with power steering, the tie rod ends have female threads. Manual rack 944 tie rod ends have male threads.

I can't 100% guarantee the FVD kit will work, but like I mentioned before the Weltmeister 911/914 kit works on my 951, and looks exactly the same.
Droops83 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2018, 08:06 AM
  #12
MAGK944
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
MAGK944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 4,451
Default

Originally Posted by Cloud9...68 View Post
I think you're right. The rep from the company responded that they've never tried it on a 944/968, so they can't guarantee it will work. It looks like their company specializes in vintage 911 and 914 parts.
Originally Posted by Droops83 View Post
No, those will work on a 944 rack with power steering, the tie rod ends have female threads. Manual rack 944 tie rod ends have male threads....
Are you sure that’s correct, my manual rack tie rod ends have female threads.


MAGK944 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2018, 02:42 PM
  #13
Droops83
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Droops83's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Santa Barbara, CA
Posts: 1,020
Default

Originally Posted by MAGK944 View Post

Are you sure that’s correct, my manual rack tie rod ends have female threads.
The early 944s with manual racks from the factory had male threads for the tie rod ends, look here:

https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog..._pg3.htm#item9

I have never installed a manual rack in a 951, so I cannot say if it is possible to adapt the tie rods from a power steering rack as it appears that you have done. How is the manual rack, anyway?

Here is a pic of the Weltmeister 911/914 bump steer tie rod ends installed on my 951 with power rack. The FVD kit looks almost identical.

Droops83 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2018, 05:05 PM
  #14
MAGK944
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
MAGK944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Palm Beach, Florida
Posts: 4,451
Default

Originally Posted by Droops83 View Post
...I have never installed a manual rack in a 951, so I cannot say if it is possible to adapt the tie rods from a power steering rack as it appears that you have done.

How is the manual rack, anyway?
You’re probably right about the tie rod ends, I might have done some “adaptation” at the time, it’s been a while.

I really enjoy the manual rack to the extent I loath the ps on my other cars. It’s just so much more precise and direct so you get tons of feedback. Negatives are the steering is laboured while manouvering below 5mph and if you hit a pothole or other uneven surface on the road, it jolts the steering wheel quite violently. That aside I wouldn’t go back to ps on a car that sees any track time.
MAGK944 is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2018, 06:53 PM
  #15
Cloud9...68
User
Thread Starter
 
Cloud9...68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 774
Default

Originally Posted by Droops83 View Post
The early 944s with manual racks from the factory had male threads for the tie rod ends, look here:

https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog..._pg3.htm#item9

I have never installed a manual rack in a 951, so I cannot say if it is possible to adapt the tie rods from a power steering rack as it appears that you have done. How is the manual rack, anyway?

Here is a pic of the Weltmeister 911/914 bump steer tie rod ends installed on my 951 with power rack. The FVD kit looks almost identical.

Chris,

Thanks for the input, and for the great picture. I guess the one thing lacking in the FVD and Weltmeister kits (could they be made by the same manufacturer?) is the ability to adjust length of the drop-down (not sure what it's called - the piece the allows the steering rod connector to move down to get closer to parallel to the ground on a lowered car), where the Elephant kit allows adjustment of the height of the steering rod connector. Is that a huge disadvantage, or is it OK to just the the tie rod connectors reasonably close to parallel to the ground (and the control arm)?
Cloud9...68 is offline  
Reply With Quote
 

Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Presto
997 Forum
6
01-29-2018 08:23 PM
samurai_k
993 Forum
9
01-03-2018 10:17 PM
red67vert
993 Forum
4
06-15-2017 09:51 AM
Martin S.
993 Forum
9
03-07-2017 04:45 PM
ChrisFL
GT4
7
02-19-2016 07:08 PM

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -3. The time now is 10:37 PM.


Copyright © 1998 - 2017 Rennlist.com We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: