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I will be replacing my head gasket when the weather warms up and I saw this head for sale on FB and purchased it. It is supposedly heavily ported (said it flowed 240 CFM, I didn't really believe that but thought it might flow a lot better than stock) and different valves, double valve springs, o-ringed and LR steam kit, so it sounded great for my build. When I got it the seller had left bolts barely in and on of the corner ones to the water neck was bent over so I knew it would need to be repaired. I called multiple automotive machine shops with rude responses, I finally took it to a performance head shop that an older gentleman who is the third generation runs, it is where a lot of the shops in the area take work and he was the only person who wanted to give me the courtesy of talking to me, so if I have work done locally he will get my business.
He looked over the head rand a straight edge and a feeler gauge all around it for a few minutes, inspected springs and valves with a bright light, sprayed some fluid in the intake parts spun it over and said, you have two inner valve springs broken this chipped valve leeks, this other one is weeping, the top of the stems are all level but one has a lot less stem showing, the intake valves are all seated differently, it should be worked on before installing and I have never worked on one of these before and I am busy, but since nobody seems to want to talk to you and if you are opposed to sending it out of town to someone who specializes on them, I will work on it when time allows if you want to go that route, otherwise I hope I helped you in some important decision making.
So now it is decision making, I have what I assume is a perfectly good stock head on my car (as it only has 48,000 original miles), I can just put a head gasket on basically, or being the guy who wants to get as much stealth power as he can, should I pursue repairing this head? I could ship it out to LR which I am not opposed to, I could go another shop that has experience, I could use my new friend, or I could cut my losses. Any suggestions and does anyone recognize the valves, etc.? I believe the guy that originally built the head and sold it was named Alexander Maximus or similar which sounds familiar and I have tried messaging a couple screen names about it.
Thanks for the input, looking around at LR site they look like their springs. As for another cam, I don't hear much talk about them, sounds like Porsche did a good job in the design and other cams just move the power around. Besides that they appear to be very expensive.
sounds like it just needs a valve job and some springs replaced?
maybe replace some valves too (the one with stem height weirdness)
needs to be taken apart and measured fully to get a verdict.
I know you are right, needs to be taken down to know the full extent, wasn't certain if the valve guides are tricky to replace and should send it to a specialist or let the local guy work on it. And of course looking for group wisdom making sure I wasn't throwing away good money after bad! LOL I am going full speed on that slippery slope as you can see!
How did the seller represent the unit? I would send it back and ask for a refund since it seems like it needs completely re-done.
Nothing is worse than buying something that is miss represented and you put money towards it when it could have been better used somewhere else. Now it's costing you more than it should have.
How did the seller represent the unit? I would send it back and ask for a refund since it seems like it needs completely re-done.
Nothing is worse than buying something that is miss represented and you put money towards it when it could have been better used somewhere else. Now it's costing you more than it should have.
It is kind of the risk we take when we buy something online used, even with the most reputable sellers. I am still in contact with him, a younger guy, he sold off his performance parts because he is doing a V-8 swap, probably damaged the block as he sold a large intercooler Vitesse turbo..... but I didn't see the block for sale and when I mentioned the leaking valve he said that cylinder ran 10 lbs less on the compression test, but he said he thought it was the block. I may still pressure to get my money back, it was billed as a good 1986 head flowing 240 CFM, dual racing springs, LR steam vent kit and O-Ringed. I verified that the O-Ring was set up for a stock 100mm piston/cylinder and he said yes, turns out the O-Ring is completely in the wrong spot, way out in the paper area of the gasket, so probably should be welded/filled in and then mill the head.
Mike Lindsey looked at the images and said that it definitely has been ported but doesn't believe it is one of his as they stamp numbers on the head when they do work on one.
So basically I have to look at whether the boring is worth it to me and if I can get a matching inner springs....... It looks like spring and valve sets are pretty expensive, may just send it off to LR to give me a quote if I don't get my money back out of it, I would let the local guy do it, but sounds like valve guides are a bit tricky.
Sucker is born every moment, this time I was the sucker! LOL
I was just looking at being able to flow well for increased HP without cranking up the boost, and thus being easier on my engine, teaches me to think!
One more thought would be to take your original head and this one to your local guy and have him make one good head from all of the parts.
I thought about it, but think I will keep it unmolested as it only has 48,000 miles on it, but plenty of heads around that I could probably buy cheap and use the parts with this one, I just wanted to keep the dual racing spring set up if possible. The guy who had it built originally replied back to my FB message, so maybe I can find out about it, he is in Edmonton Canada I believe and he said IRL Racing built it, but any Google search seems to bring up Indy Race League etc.. So we will see if I can track down some matching parts to keep what is good about it and only fixe what is bad.
Hmmm I thought about buying this head and now I am glad I hesitated. It sucks that you got stuck with a misrepresented part, but it's the risk we take when buying used parts. I ended up buying the Vitesse turbo and all seems well, but I intended on having it rebuilt after I bought it. I don't want to install it and have a blown oil seal waste a lot of my time.
Hmmm I thought about buying this head and now I am glad I hesitated. It sucks that you got stuck with a misrepresented part, but it's the risk we take when buying used parts. I ended up buying the Vitesse turbo and all seems well, but I intended on having it rebuilt after I bought it. I don't want to install it and have a blown oil seal waste a lot of my time.
Yes, I know Brad feels bad about it, when you buy used parts you risk this sort of thing and to be honest it took someone who does head work for a living to look at it and see these things, I believe Brad when he said he had it on his car and thought it was good. Yes the Vitesse turbo was tempting but I just had Charlie at Evergreen build me a custom K27-8 which I am sure will kick butt as much as the older design allows. I wanted something that looked stock unless you really knew what you were looking for.
Hey the one that broke my heart is that I bought a Vitesse MAF that was new never installed still in shrink wrap etc. for $500 two years ago thinking I got a great deal and just a while ago I sent pictures of it to John with the serials to see about paying for the new software and he says "That's not for a 951!", that hurt as I thought I had all the parts for my build basically. Now I guess I will go with VEMs, will see what general consensus is when I pull the plug to buy, but I will be buying new, that is for sure! LOL
It is all good, I just try to get input from all the great pros around here who have done it all already. There is still a side of me that says keep it all stock and find something that has some miles on it and go hog wild, if I had more parking space I definitely would.
Hopefully my latest buy redeems this one, I just won this eBay auction and look forward to getting the parts, cleaning them up and having the head checked out, between the two I hope I can come up with a great head. Plus I got larger intake valves, a cam and adjustable cam gear...... Downside would be opening up closed off water passages for my 2.5 liter.
Custom ported head from CMW Racing, features 48mm intake valves.
Matching ported intake manifold... someone spent A LOT of time on this.
New intake guides and 930 based exhaust guides fitted during German Precision valve job, low hours since rebuild.
Head was modified for use on a 3 liter block, easily modified back for 2.5 block configuration
Combustion chambers relief grooved for engine block O rings... use as is or O ring your block for high boost applications
Ceramic exhaust port inserts are intact, but a small piece of the #1 intake guide boss broke off during the valve job. Ted (owner/machinist of German Precision) assured me it would cause no issues. Indeed, this head ran 2 seasons with no problems.
Includes cam tower, cam, adjustable cam sprocket and lifters. Camshaft is supposedly a 'sport' grind, but I have no lift/duration data for it.
The dilemma is the intake manifold, the Frankenstein look to it may compromise my stealth build. I have an intake manifold that has been ported (probably not to the extent this one has been) and a new oversized throttle body that I will use on whichever on I end up using. Do I see how much this new intake can be cleaned up and paint with a heat dissipating black paint or go with the one I have that looks completely stock? Obviously I am well under my way down that slippery slope!
Just re-read this, who said 944 valve guides were tricky or difficult?
I've had a lot of 944 heads done by a few local shops, guides go in and out of a 944 head like any other make/model, $5 labor per guide to R&R, doing all 8 takes a few minutes.
Just re-read this, who said 944 valve guides were tricky or difficult?
I've had a lot of 944 heads done by a few local shops, guides go in and out of a 944 head like any other make/model, $5 labor per guide to R&R, doing all 8 takes a few minutes.
I would have to look through my correspondence and even then wouldn't want to name names, but a shop that specialized in Porsche performance machine work told me they could be tricky, so I took their word for it, of course they probably wanted me to send the head to them and not have a local shop do it. Anyway, that is what I was told in a correspondence.
The valve guides can be tricky in a 951 head. Mainly the exhaust valve guides because if they are pressed in to hard they will crack the ceramic ports. Spencer seems to have forgotten because he still has a N/A engine with a N/A head and they don't have the ceramic exhaust ports. Remember the 951 was the first head design I know of that was made with the head being cast around the ceramic exhaust ports. And if LR told you that then they are right, so would everyone else if they told you that. It can be tricky but only the exhaust valve guides. If the ceramic cracks then you have a wasted head because the ceramic exhaust port is in direct contact with the water passage.
good score BTW.
12-28-2017, 12:43 AM
Is this Head Worth Repairing
