Speed Force Racing S2 SC Kits!!
02-14-2002, 02:03 AM
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Burning Brakes
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Speed Force Racing S2 SC Kits!!
We are fresh off the Dyno from the "dyno Shop" in Santee Ca. The runs we made in our Tuning session are very impressive, but there is more to be had. We unfortunately, were shipped the wrong sized pully from our supplier and were only able to generate 3psi boost.
The good news you ask? We made 250 at the rear tires, on a stock bottom end with the CAT inplace! Running the stock intake manifold! The manifold never had to be removed throughout the entire operation :-) But yes, we had to loose the AC, its a trade off...sane and safe reliable HP from a Top of the Line Supercharger kit, for the price of cool air...
Only 3psi is all it took to get the HP that will put you right back into the mix of todays hot rods and all those chipped 951?952's!!
Thats a very safe a responsible level of boost whether your a track car or a red light hopper! It can be driven all day long!
We are awaiting our new pully, for 7psi ...with the eficiency of our kit, we expect to make 300+ at the tires!
I should state, these runs were made on a DYNO JET dynometer, at an independant shop, this should help assure you that our numbers are correct and accurate!
Our kit is Intercooled, that makes a HUGE difference in any boosted application.
The sheets will be posted by tomorow evening.
Take Care!
The good news you ask? We made 250 at the rear tires, on a stock bottom end with the CAT inplace! Running the stock intake manifold! The manifold never had to be removed throughout the entire operation :-) But yes, we had to loose the AC, its a trade off...sane and safe reliable HP from a Top of the Line Supercharger kit, for the price of cool air...
Only 3psi is all it took to get the HP that will put you right back into the mix of todays hot rods and all those chipped 951?952's!!
Thats a very safe a responsible level of boost whether your a track car or a red light hopper! It can be driven all day long!
We are awaiting our new pully, for 7psi ...with the eficiency of our kit, we expect to make 300+ at the tires!
I should state, these runs were made on a DYNO JET dynometer, at an independant shop, this should help assure you that our numbers are correct and accurate!
Our kit is Intercooled, that makes a HUGE difference in any boosted application.
The sheets will be posted by tomorow evening.
Take Care!
02-14-2002, 02:16 PM
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John,
Something very interesting is going on here. I don't see how you can make that kind of HP on only 3 psi of boost. A stock S2 will only make in the neighborhood of 175-180 HP at the wheels. My car made 185 with an aftermarket chip.
If you really are making 250 HP that's about a 40% increase over stock... and I don't see how that's possible on 3 psi of boost. Most supercharger kits on the market for other engines will make maybe 48-50% more HP on 6-7 psi of boost. None of them will make 40% more on 3 psi.
And I don't think it's the intercooler either. 3 psi does not raise the intake charge temperature very much... certainly not enough to justify an intercooler.
It would be interesting to see your boost curve. If you made 3 psi at 6000 rpm you must make about 0 psi at 3000 rpm.
If you really can make 250 HP on such low boost, it must mean that the stock intake system on the S2 is a very restrictive, terrible design, and the engine is just waiting to "come alive" with power... if only it could get some airflow.
I think I want one of those Jon Milledge barrel-valve intake manifolds
Something very interesting is going on here. I don't see how you can make that kind of HP on only 3 psi of boost. A stock S2 will only make in the neighborhood of 175-180 HP at the wheels. My car made 185 with an aftermarket chip.
If you really are making 250 HP that's about a 40% increase over stock... and I don't see how that's possible on 3 psi of boost. Most supercharger kits on the market for other engines will make maybe 48-50% more HP on 6-7 psi of boost. None of them will make 40% more on 3 psi.
And I don't think it's the intercooler either. 3 psi does not raise the intake charge temperature very much... certainly not enough to justify an intercooler.
It would be interesting to see your boost curve. If you made 3 psi at 6000 rpm you must make about 0 psi at 3000 rpm.
If you really can make 250 HP on such low boost, it must mean that the stock intake system on the S2 is a very restrictive, terrible design, and the engine is just waiting to "come alive" with power... if only it could get some airflow.
I think I want one of those Jon Milledge barrel-valve intake manifolds
02-14-2002, 11:42 PM
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Burning Brakes
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HI Tom, I'll send you the charts tomorow. Along with a text graph. It was measured on a dynojet at the Dyno Shop shop in santee, that shop is one of the major hotrodders shops around the area, nascar, to POC, alot of stand alone stuff along with big block old school motors. The local Corvette club uses them along with the viper club and pantera club. They are highly recognized for their accuracy and skill along with mechanical abilities. THey have a total 5 dyno's. My point being...they know their stuff.
02-15-2002, 11:56 AM
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OK I know this is a stupid question but here goes.
1) will this worj on an 8v 2.5 L 87 944 n/a and is there any way to keep the AC and the blower at the same time?
Also what is the cost of this item? <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
1) will this worj on an 8v 2.5 L 87 944 n/a and is there any way to keep the AC and the blower at the same time?
Also what is the cost of this item? <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
02-15-2002, 02:41 PM
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The ONLY kits on the market that keep A/C are from Huntley Racing and we do offer SC kits for the 2V cars like yours. In fact you can see a N/A 944 on our website fitted with HR Stage III intercooler SC kit. Just go to <a href="http://www.huntleyracing.com" target="_blank">www.huntleyracing.com</a> to take a look.
02-16-2002, 12:47 AM
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Actually, Derrek is right, they are the ONLY company at this time to offer AC with the SC kits they sell. THe key phrase being "at this time" :-)
We are currently working on a kit for the 16 valve kit that will also allow for the AC to be kept in place. It will use a Whipple (NEW units) and will most likely, as we see it, loose the intercooled option for higher boost levels. Its a sacrifice, but at least we will have the two kits for your options.
SFR has done some testing, and we have found that unless you reduce the timing, running over 4psi boost on sustained runs with constant ramp ups (16 valve, high compression motors) on street legal gas does not work too well. Hope you own a shop!
So, for the street car and AC hungry fans, we will offer the whipple unit at a lower boost. And for the HP guys owning a tracked car, we can send you our Kits with intercooler that allow for much higher and safer boost levels.
Our customer with our S2 kit will post his pictures and results on his web page:
<a href="http://www.exotichorsepower.com" target="_blank">www.exotichorsepower.com</a>
The picts and info, including the duno shhets should be up by tonight!
Take Care All!!!
We are currently working on a kit for the 16 valve kit that will also allow for the AC to be kept in place. It will use a Whipple (NEW units) and will most likely, as we see it, loose the intercooled option for higher boost levels. Its a sacrifice, but at least we will have the two kits for your options.
SFR has done some testing, and we have found that unless you reduce the timing, running over 4psi boost on sustained runs with constant ramp ups (16 valve, high compression motors) on street legal gas does not work too well. Hope you own a shop!
So, for the street car and AC hungry fans, we will offer the whipple unit at a lower boost. And for the HP guys owning a tracked car, we can send you our Kits with intercooler that allow for much higher and safer boost levels.
Our customer with our S2 kit will post his pictures and results on his web page:
<a href="http://www.exotichorsepower.com" target="_blank">www.exotichorsepower.com</a>
The picts and info, including the duno shhets should be up by tonight!
Take Care All!!!
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02-20-2002, 01:47 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by John Anderson:
The good news you ask? We made 250 at the rear tires, on a stock bottom end with the CAT inplace!<hr></blockquote>Take a look at the write-up at the Exotic HP site. Prior to the supercharger installation this car had already undergone a lot of modifications. The owner wrote me once and he claimed it had about 220 HP at the wheels before the supercharger. The engine had a HR MAF, adjustable cam sprocket, HR head work, Elgin cams, high flow CAT, etc. So, it was far from a stock engine.
[quote]Only 3psi is all it took to get the HP that will put you right back into the mix of todays hot rods and all those chipped 951?952's!!<hr></blockquote>Don't forget the $7,000 kit cost
Plus the thousands already spent on previous modifications. Unless you can post 'before' and 'after' dyno sheets there's no way to tell how much power and torque the supercharger itself added. There's no way 3 psi is going to add 40% more power [a good S2 engine will make about 180 HP at the wheels, so 250/180=1.39], but it might make 20% [(14.7+3.0)/14.7=1.20]... which would be a more reasonable result. A 20% power increase would put the starting HP right around 208, which is more believable considering the previous modifications.
The good news you ask? We made 250 at the rear tires, on a stock bottom end with the CAT inplace!<hr></blockquote>Take a look at the write-up at the Exotic HP site. Prior to the supercharger installation this car had already undergone a lot of modifications. The owner wrote me once and he claimed it had about 220 HP at the wheels before the supercharger. The engine had a HR MAF, adjustable cam sprocket, HR head work, Elgin cams, high flow CAT, etc. So, it was far from a stock engine.
[quote]Only 3psi is all it took to get the HP that will put you right back into the mix of todays hot rods and all those chipped 951?952's!!<hr></blockquote>Don't forget the $7,000 kit cost
Plus the thousands already spent on previous modifications. Unless you can post 'before' and 'after' dyno sheets there's no way to tell how much power and torque the supercharger itself added. There's no way 3 psi is going to add 40% more power [a good S2 engine will make about 180 HP at the wheels, so 250/180=1.39], but it might make 20% [(14.7+3.0)/14.7=1.20]... which would be a more reasonable result. A 20% power increase would put the starting HP right around 208, which is more believable considering the previous modifications.
02-21-2002, 01:35 AM
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Tom,
We will post the before and after charts, we jumped the gun, and went for the numbers with the kit before we ran it as it came to us....
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
We will post the before and after charts, we jumped the gun, and went for the numbers with the kit before we ran it as it came to us....
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
02-22-2002, 12:23 PM
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Take a look at the write-up at the Exotic HP site. Prior to the supercharger installation this car had already undergone a lot of modifications. The owner wrote me once and he claimed it had about
220 HP at the wheels before the supercharger. The engine had a HR MAF, adjustable cam sprocket,
HR head work, Elgin cams, high flow CAT, etc. So, it was far from a stock engine.
Well it did not have 220 at the wheels.I have driven stock 951's that were quicker then that and they only lay down 182 or so.
quote:
Only 3psi is all it took to get the HP that will put you right back into the mix of todays
hot rods and all those chipped 951?952's!!
Don't forget the $7,000 kit cost Plus the thousands already spent on previous modifications.
The kit on Mike Muis car will retail for $5999.
Unless you can post 'before' and 'after' dyno sheets there's no way to tell how much power and
torque the supercharger itself added.
We will.It is very easy to run the car normally aspirated.We can pull the supercharger off in about 15 minutes.
There's no way 3 psi is going to add 40% more power
Well you beleive that a cam and headwork along with a high flow cat could add over 34% more power to this S2(stock S2 lays down 170, 220 is about 34% more power) but 3 psi of boost cannot add 37% more power? Now I am confused? I cant beleive you let this one slip by you, Tom;^) If the SC was big enough it could, especially if it was intercooled. Remember we are talking about a blower that can flow 1200 cfm and support upto 825 horsepower as well as maintaining a 78% abiatic efficiency.
[a good S2 engine will make about 180 HP at the wheels, so 250/180=1.39], but it might make 20%[(14.7+3.0)/14.7=1.20]... which would be a more reasonable result. A 20% power increase would put the starting HP right around 208, which is more believable considering the previous modifications.
20% increase from some headwork and a cam? I dont think so. You might find about 5-10% more power with a cam and headwork on the S2, if it is in good shape. Porsche did a good job and I doubt you can improve upon the efficiency this much on this particular Porsche. There is no way this car made 208 or 220 at the wheels. It was too slow. After driving close to 100 different watercoooled Porsches over the years, with all sorts of modifications, I can say that I am pretty good with seat of the pants impressions;^) We will post the before dynos as well as the after dynos.
Tim
86 951
<a href="http://www.speedforceracing.com" target="_blank">http://www.speedforceracing.com</a>
220 HP at the wheels before the supercharger. The engine had a HR MAF, adjustable cam sprocket,
HR head work, Elgin cams, high flow CAT, etc. So, it was far from a stock engine.
Well it did not have 220 at the wheels.I have driven stock 951's that were quicker then that and they only lay down 182 or so.
quote:
Only 3psi is all it took to get the HP that will put you right back into the mix of todays
hot rods and all those chipped 951?952's!!
Don't forget the $7,000 kit cost Plus the thousands already spent on previous modifications.
The kit on Mike Muis car will retail for $5999.
Unless you can post 'before' and 'after' dyno sheets there's no way to tell how much power and
torque the supercharger itself added.
We will.It is very easy to run the car normally aspirated.We can pull the supercharger off in about 15 minutes.
There's no way 3 psi is going to add 40% more power
Well you beleive that a cam and headwork along with a high flow cat could add over 34% more power to this S2(stock S2 lays down 170, 220 is about 34% more power) but 3 psi of boost cannot add 37% more power? Now I am confused? I cant beleive you let this one slip by you, Tom;^) If the SC was big enough it could, especially if it was intercooled. Remember we are talking about a blower that can flow 1200 cfm and support upto 825 horsepower as well as maintaining a 78% abiatic efficiency.
[a good S2 engine will make about 180 HP at the wheels, so 250/180=1.39], but it might make 20%[(14.7+3.0)/14.7=1.20]... which would be a more reasonable result. A 20% power increase would put the starting HP right around 208, which is more believable considering the previous modifications.
20% increase from some headwork and a cam? I dont think so. You might find about 5-10% more power with a cam and headwork on the S2, if it is in good shape. Porsche did a good job and I doubt you can improve upon the efficiency this much on this particular Porsche. There is no way this car made 208 or 220 at the wheels. It was too slow. After driving close to 100 different watercoooled Porsches over the years, with all sorts of modifications, I can say that I am pretty good with seat of the pants impressions;^) We will post the before dynos as well as the after dynos.
Tim
86 951
<a href="http://www.speedforceracing.com" target="_blank">http://www.speedforceracing.com</a>
02-22-2002, 02:54 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by TurboTim:
Well it did not have 220 at the wheels.I have driven stock 951's that were quicker then that and they only lay down 182 or so.<hr></blockquote>Well, that's good to know... I didn't believe the number myself. FWIW my car, which is bone stock except for a custom chip made about 185 HP and 185 torque on a Dynojet 248C. I guess I must have a good engine
[quote]Well you beleive that a cam and headwork along with a high flow cat could add over 34% more power<hr></blockquote>I didn't say I believed it! My only point was the engine was not stock to begin with, that's all. [quote]Remember we are talking about a blower that can flow 1200 cfm and support upto 825 horsepower as well as maintaining a 78% abiatic efficiency.<hr></blockquote>But if you were flowing 1200 cfm you'd certainly be putting out a helluva lot more than 3 psi
[quote]20% increase from some headwork and a cam?<hr></blockquote>No, what I meant was a 3 psi boost might yield about a 20% increase, so if you made 250 with the blower, the unboosted engine put out about 208. That 208 HP would be about 12% more than my car has. Considering it had thousands of dollars in previous work (head, cam, MAF, and those famous Nology wires I did not think that 208 number was so unreasonable. Afterall, the S2 engines for the racing series made in the 240-245 HP range at the flywheel, and they were essentially stock, with racing chips and complete blueprint. So, obviously, there is power to be had. [quote]Porsche did a good job and I doubt you can improve upon the efficiency this much on this particular Porsche.<hr></blockquote>So, how does your blower setup produce so much more power with only 3 psi? Now I'm confused. [quote]We will post the before dynos as well as the after dynos.<hr></blockquote>Cool. I look forward to seeing them.
Well it did not have 220 at the wheels.I have driven stock 951's that were quicker then that and they only lay down 182 or so.<hr></blockquote>Well, that's good to know... I didn't believe the number myself. FWIW my car, which is bone stock except for a custom chip made about 185 HP and 185 torque on a Dynojet 248C. I guess I must have a good engine
[quote]Well you beleive that a cam and headwork along with a high flow cat could add over 34% more power<hr></blockquote>I didn't say I believed it! My only point was the engine was not stock to begin with, that's all. [quote]Remember we are talking about a blower that can flow 1200 cfm and support upto 825 horsepower as well as maintaining a 78% abiatic efficiency.<hr></blockquote>But if you were flowing 1200 cfm you'd certainly be putting out a helluva lot more than 3 psi
[quote]20% increase from some headwork and a cam?<hr></blockquote>No, what I meant was a 3 psi boost might yield about a 20% increase, so if you made 250 with the blower, the unboosted engine put out about 208. That 208 HP would be about 12% more than my car has. Considering it had thousands of dollars in previous work (head, cam, MAF, and those famous Nology wires
I did not think that 208 number was so unreasonable. Afterall, the S2 engines for the racing series made in the 240-245 HP range at the flywheel, and they were essentially stock, with racing chips and complete blueprint. So, obviously, there is power to be had. [quote]Porsche did a good job and I doubt you can improve upon the efficiency this much on this particular Porsche.<hr></blockquote>So, how does your blower setup produce so much more power with only 3 psi? Now I'm confused. [quote]We will post the before dynos as well as the after dynos.<hr></blockquote>Cool. I look forward to seeing them.
02-23-2002, 10:34 AM
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Tom,
I am following you now.Our supercharger does not flow 1200 cfm at 3 psi:^) I wish it did. It flows 1200 cfm at 20 something psi:^(
I used to be a firm supporter of Nology.that is until they started producing shoddy wires.We had to take Mikes wires off of his car becasue of a misfire.Even after we took them off there was still a slight misfire.We eventually had to remove those hokey silverstone plug. After we replaced those plugs with stock units, the car finally was rid of its little ignition glitches.
When we are finished testing we will put all sorts of the dyno charts up.They are nice because we can overlay the boost pressure and air/fuel ratios along with the power and torque curves.We will also be putting up the dyno chart for the non-intercooled S2 kit.
I am following you now.Our supercharger does not flow 1200 cfm at 3 psi:^) I wish it did. It flows 1200 cfm at 20 something psi:^(
I used to be a firm supporter of Nology.that is until they started producing shoddy wires.We had to take Mikes wires off of his car becasue of a misfire.Even after we took them off there was still a slight misfire.We eventually had to remove those hokey silverstone plug. After we replaced those plugs with stock units, the car finally was rid of its little ignition glitches.
When we are finished testing we will put all sorts of the dyno charts up.They are nice because we can overlay the boost pressure and air/fuel ratios along with the power and torque curves.We will also be putting up the dyno chart for the non-intercooled S2 kit.
02-25-2002, 01:44 AM
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THe S2 with HUntley mods will never make 220 at the tires, we at SFR are not responsible for the claims made there!
Derreks car an S2 cab with his mods, at a PCA tech session (which he held) made barely over 200hp at the tires, if that...it may have been less...I will get a print out of that dyno sheet and look it over. This is with the cams, and MAF.
Derreks car an S2 cab with his mods, at a PCA tech session (which he held) made barely over 200hp at the tires, if that...it may have been less...I will get a print out of that dyno sheet and look it over. This is with the cams, and MAF.
03-20-2002, 11:08 AM
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Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to knock your engineering work, but people pay $7000 for that? I know you guys do this for a living and I just do it for fun, but for $7000 I would at least lower the compression. 3lbs of boost in a 11:1 motor brings your peak compression under full boost, to around 13 to one.
Also, the lowest power a 951 made was 220 at the flywheel, and they have a turbo, which has inherent advantages over a supercharger. That's why Porsche uses them.
A turbo car with 250 bhp will in all likelyhood be quite a bit quicker than a supercharged car with 250 bhp. Both make their peak horsepower at 6000 rpm. This is where the supercharger, being dependant on the speed of the engine, makes it's peak boost. The turbo car makes it's peak boost from 3000 rpm to redline, give a huge midrange advantage of torque and horsepower.
Any bolt on power is better than no bolt on power, but I would at least lower the compression
Also, the lowest power a 951 made was 220 at the flywheel, and they have a turbo, which has inherent advantages over a supercharger. That's why Porsche uses them.
A turbo car with 250 bhp will in all likelyhood be quite a bit quicker than a supercharged car with 250 bhp. Both make their peak horsepower at 6000 rpm. This is where the supercharger, being dependant on the speed of the engine, makes it's peak boost. The turbo car makes it's peak boost from 3000 rpm to redline, give a huge midrange advantage of torque and horsepower.
Any bolt on power is better than no bolt on power, but I would at least lower the compression