joecitizennn

I just filled my 2.5 944 engine with Valvoline VR1 2050 racing oil. I am a little worried that it might be too thick for the engine. Sometimes I hear slight tappet noise on the first rotation at startup with the engine cold. Is 20 50 overkill, and if so will my engine be ok for 2 to 3000 miles till I change it, or should I get it out of there now?

Thom

It might be a bit extreme for cold start ups in very cold weather but otherwise it will be just fine.

joecitizennn

If that is the case, I will leave it in for 2 to 3k miles and be wiser next time. I just wanted the VR1 for the ZDDP content, and Advance Auto only carries the 20 50. I have read that alot of porsche owners prefer 20 50, so I bit on the bait.

JET951

Hi Joe , just have a look at the oil chart that is in the owners manual that came with the car when new (printed by Porsche ) it shows (ambient temp) from minus 10 degrees cel ( about 14 deg Fahrenheit ) to unlimited high temp a 20w-50 is ok, and the ZDDP component is very important for all Porsche's from last century .
Regards .BB .

Potomac-Greg

My understanding (may be wrong) is tha the ZDDP content is NOT a vital concern for our engines. The flat-tappet engines need the ZDDP but our roller-tappet engines are not vulnerable.

PS: Caution regarding race oils. They often omit detergent additives which could result in sludge over time.

JET951

Greg , I will get you to explain that to over thirty new customers that have turned up to our'e workshop in the last seven to eight years with completely destroyed cams and lifters with 944, 951 single cam 2.5L engines and 944S , 944S2 and particulary 968 engines where the cam lobes were nearly gone and the valve guides were extremely worn for the kms travelled , and in all cases they were all on a diet of thin vis latest ( for that point in time) so called fully synthetic oils , and had been on them for at least two to three years (going by the previous service receipts). In the case of the 968's both of those had less than 90,000kms on the odometers . And this is not counting the huge number of 928 & air cooled 911 models with the same problem , its been fantastic for business .
But what am I comparing those worn examples to , its simple, we just stuck to what we /I used at the Porsche dealership(Sydney Aust) Pre 1994 , and that was Valvoline GP50 , and all the independant Porsche repairers used it as well for many many years , so the huge number of the very same models mentioned above that we never deviated and have stayed on a good quality oil wth (as we now know ) a traditional amount of ZDDP and what have we seen on this group of Porsche's = no wear at all .
Just google ZDDP and have a read , its amazing , in essence the problem seems to be the ever reducing amounts of ZDDP being used to get the latest and NEW and IMPROVED formulars to pass accreditation to be used in the latest cars and not aimed at all at the oldies .
something we have learn't about SM rated oils , there are two completely different versions from what we can figure A) if you see energy conserving on the bottle ( leave it on the shelf )in regards to Porsche's from last century.
B) there is a second version ( at least here in Australia ) a 20w-50 with the correct amount of ZDDP , .The SM only relates to the latest in the long line of grading oils ( eg SG or SH etc )
The amounts of ZDDP that we now know , looking back all the years and researshing the amount of ZDDP in the oils that translated into no wear were around .2 , if the amount is less than .14 then it gets a bit Iffy.
Remember I do not mind at all what any one uses for an engine oil , just so long they never say why didn't you tell us = I just did , and secondly this is only my opinion from 31 years working on Porsche cars , nothing more and nothing less .
Regards BB.

ENGINEERMAN

Hello all:

I spent almost an hour on the phone with LN Engineering on the topic of proper lubricants. They have done an extensive amount of testing and after the discussion it was clear that the Swepco 15W-40 or Brad Penn 20w-50 lubes were about the best out there (for the money) for the older engines requiring higher levels of ZDDP.

That's all I run in all my cars now. Call them or go to their website. These are engineers who base their comments on extensive testing using sound scientific methods.

Good luck!

hockeydude

i used to run Redline 20W50 in my 2.7 NA and never had any problems.

The car was never used in colder weather, though...

mike10562004

I'll let you in on a little secret research diesel oils like Rotella T 15w40. Its dirt cheep and works Great for the flat tappet cam

Zinc: 1210 ppm
Phosphorus: 989 ppm
Boron: 35 ppm


the only downfall to using rotella t is that in time it starts to deteriorate the CAT after prolong use therefore i would recommend SWEPCO! talk to some of the 911 owners. but you can always get lol jk

joecitizennn

I am currently running valvoline fully synthetic 10w30 in the summer and valvoline fully synthetic 5w30 in the winter. I have had no problems and think that this is good oil, is this heavy enough for my flat tappet engine?

jamesjedi

Racing oil is for racing, not for street car use. Use the Porsche recommended oil. If you do a search you will find the most recent list. Even Bruce Anderson says "you should use approved oils." This is especially true with the recent changes to the content of the oil. Everyone has an "opinion" on oil. Why not use the opinion of Porsche, they made the engine and know what it needs. It eliminates any guessing. The list even applies to your year of 944.

Hope this helps.

James

jamesjedi

I cannot find the latest 2009 list. I do have a link to the 2006 list. Maybe someone can post the 2009 list. More than likely it will be the same.

http://kiyor32.cocolog-nifty.com/gt3...-List-2006.pdf

JET951

Hi James , the list you have the link to(PCNA 2006) shows only 0w-40 or 5w-40 oil viscosities , which is interesting because thats what 986(Boxter) & 996/997engines are designed from the ground up for , however the Porsche models from last century (pre 986, 996) , meaning }
911 air cooled (all) Particularly Turbo versions
924 (all) Particularly Turbo versions
944 (all) Particularly Turbo versions
944S, 944S2 , 968
928 , S4, GT, GTS
We have found can only safely run at high RPM(engine at op temp) on a 5w-40 if the MAX ambient temp is" below" plus 10 deg celcius (aprox 45 deg Fahrenheit) and even slightly lower ambient temp with a 0w-40

But how did I get that imformation I hear you ask ?
Answer = The owners manuals that came with these cars printed by Porsche ,and more importantly in the same era (Not a Decade )or two later refering to early 1980's Porsche's

The owners manuals (even 1995 year types , like the 928GTS and 968) show very clearly in the highlighted look at me shaded section in the middle of the oil viscosity page(printed by Porsche) that in the ambient temp range from minus 10 deg cel to unlimited high ambient temps the first cab off the rank is a 15w-50 or a 20w-50 . (in some owners manuals it only lists 20w-50 in that top line )
Now there is at the bottom of the page(owners manual) references to Fuel Economy oils and these lower viscosity oils like the 5w-40 are there .
Now this is where it gets interesting ,(I will stick to 944 series here) we have found over the decades that the only Porsches we see with blown bottom ends (big end let go = destroyed crank etc) is where the said Porsche has been driven" Lets say in a very sporty manner" over only a relative short period of time and KMS/miles where it has been on a much lower viscosity oil in contrast to the owners manual for the given ambient temp range , we have had many engine sumps off 944, 944S2 , 951 ,968 models in the last few years getting the ready for the owner to do a littly club track driving( for the first time) and we have found many big end bearings (mainly No 2) that were very heavily worn and looking at the service records and reciepts had only been on a much lower vis oil for only a relativly short time period and no track work in that period, where as the same types that had only been on a 20w-50 had shown no wear at all ,(this is because of oil pressure at this journal) and this is where the Fuel Economy Oils viscosities come into it , meaning a 944 that is just driven to and from work and ONLY driven with fuel economy (meaning lower revs at all times)can probably get away with a lower viscosity oil but it seems strange when you consider that its a sports car and it will be driven as such from time to time , and with the ambient temp range like it is here in Australia = minus 10 deg cel to unlimited high ambient temps , then that spells 20w-50 to me , plus the added advantage that 20w-50 oils are designed for engines from last century(and not this century) and the varst majority if not all have decent to very good levels of ZDDP that the majority of the lighter vis oils 0w-40 / 5w-40 are not allowed to have to meet the emission proticols for petrol (Gas USA speak) powered cars for this century .

Regards
BB

mikey_audiogeek

Good info Jet951, can't argue with results.

Here's some info I found: http://www.jaguarhunter.org.au/Techn...ngine_Oils.htm

jamesjedi

I have looked at the owners manuals from my current 944, and 3.2 Cerrera that I do not have anymore. The manuals are over 20 years old, and the same people that made them have made a new recommendation with the "Porsche Technical". It is for vehicles that are from 83 on. Oils have had huge developments in 20 years. The engines that had 5w 40 oils, were they running on synthetic? All the recommended oils are synthetic.

I guess that I have faith in the company that made the engines, they should have significant data from service departments throughout the world. But that may not be the case. Perhaps a service shop that has first hand experience could have more of a history than Porsche. It is possible. They may have never looked into the occurrence of engine failure and the oils being used in that engine. After all, they don't really stand to gain much from research into the 944 engine.