Mikes3.0cabturbo

Installed a MBC temporarily to set up the increased boost, EBC later. Its at 8psi at the moment, ignition timing around 23 degrees, seems fine, AFR's in the low 11s.
The car is very very very quick....however quite docile as long as you keep less than 35% throttle and under 3000 rpm.

Does anyone know if the torque curve moves on an engine when its turboed, I have set my ignition curve based on the stock engine curve so I pull timing from 4500 - 5500 when peak is/was, but dont know if this is correct still?

Mikes3.0cabturbo

I just couldn't help myself having the ability to increase boost by moving a simple adjuster was too much, went up to 9psi on 10.9:1 CR, wow is this quick or what.....it reaches red line in 2nd, 3rd, 4th in a endless rush of acceleration, 5th continues but I have not explored that high on a open road or track yet.

Now I know lots of folks say you cant boost that high, and I know this is early days, but I am on a standalone and all the tuning parameters are right......maybe I will pop something!!!... however will wait and see, in the meantime I will push the envelope some.

I calculate I am around 380 crank HP, will dyno in a few weeks.

rgds
mike

p.s all you 944S2/968 guys this is an absolute rush - major power

Mikes3.0cabturbo

Tried to get some 0-60mph readings last night on the G-tech, but way too much wheel spin, must admit the boy racer in me took over, I was on an empty road, in first with a hard launch it smokes up the tires, second smoking continues but accelerates hard, then finally third more wheelspin before major speed increase, all this in 5 - 6 seconds, I need to develop a better launch technique, but I dont want to fry the clutch so may give this activity a miss.
The car is running great, averaging 8.5psi boost, peaking at just over 9psi. I have done some more work to the wastgate and cam cover, still on my quest to look stock as possible. I have added the stock by pass valve and tthe cam cover painted black crinkle finish have some of the raised cam cover letters on order in red should look nice.

JakeS2

Is 200hp enough? You can crank out 200hp from your 2,5 n/a engine with some modifications.

Hate to say this but you might want to consider getting rid of your 944 n/a and go for 951 or S2. 951 will give you easily some tuning potential. With S2 it ain't going to be THAT easy. But the bottom like is that both models have upgraded suspension, steering, brakes etc.. which are needed to change if you improve your car's performance from stock.

Mikes3.0cabturbo

Here is a summary of the ignition map I have created, the full map actually has values every 250 rpm and around idle every 100 rpm, if anyone want the details I can share.

The Vacuum/boost values are in Kpa, 1psi=6.89 Kpa or Kpa/100 = 1 bar

Mikes3.0cabturbo

Pushed it a little more today, ran the car up to 11psi just to see if it would encounter any knock at that level, nothing, running 24 degrees ignition advance, 11.1 AFR ran sweetly, the difference in power wasnt really that noticable from 9psi to 11psi, it so damn quick anyway.

So I have backed it down to 10psi which should be around 400HP at the crank, I'll leave it at that for a while and concentrate on getting the best ignition tune at that level.

Minor problem, my boost onset is slow, I would have expected the 3.0 high compression engine to hit 11psi boost on the 60-1 hifi easily around 2700rpm, however it doesnt until 3200rpm.

I think a combination of a low value wastegate spring and my stock exhaust is causing the wastegate to opening early and slowing down the boost ramp. I still have a low 0.3bar/4.4psi spring in the Tail wastegate so I expect that the backpressure is overcoming the spring and causing it to lift off the seat delaying the boost onset.

Will replace the spring with a 0.6bar/8.8psi and see what happens. I plan to change the exhaust in the next couple of months anyway.

rgds
mike

Mikes3.0cabturbo

Replaced the spring in my Tial 44mm with a small blue 7.2lb, it interesting that in a Tial 38mm the same spring gives 8.7psi & yet in the 44mm its only 7.2, the local turbo shop didnt know this, but its actually on the Tial site if you read carefully.

No real change, so it seems that maybe backpressure isnt a concern at these low revs (2k - 4k) like I thought it was. Its strange though I get 1 psi of boost at 1800rpm and yet at 2500 its still 1psi, so I think the wastegate is still opening, running out of ideas on why though.

I will now get rid of the gated manual boost controller and use the electronic boost control in my EMS so that I can use the two ports of the Tial, the top port will have pressure from the turbo to keep the gate closed, that hopefully will stop the wastegate opening early.

I also noticed a small exhaust flange leak which may have some affect too, so new gaskets in tonight as well.

Mikes3.0cabturbo

Fixed up the exhaust, the gasket from the headers to exhaust had blown through, bolts were loose, replaced the gaskets and thats fixed, I had used brass nuts and they had stripped, so back to steel nuts this time.

Set up the electronic boost controller thats working now, not really a lot of change, its now 2lb boost at 1800, 10psi at 3200, but much steadier boost now, no fluctuations that I had with the manual boost control. The onset of boost is so turbine smooth just pushes you back in the seat and keeps you there until its time to grab another gear.

So I plotted the boost against the Innovate 60-1 compressor map 2,3,4,5,6k revs from the data logged. I think I read the 60-1 hifi has 5-10% less flow than the 60-1 shown so maybe the plot should be a little more to the right.

If there are turbo gurus out there who know better please let me know, I'm right on the limit of my knowledge & experience here re turbos. Learning by trial and error.

Attachment 226138

Fishey

Very nice,

I must suggest, Add an AlkyControls Meth setup. Then Replace rods with 86 Turbo/Aftermarket (replace bolts on the 86 turbo if you go that route) and 968 Pistons. Crank boost to 16-17psi and enjoy...

I never pushed my factory equipment (Pistons/Rods) past 400whp as it was kinda scary as it was without anyone really knowing the limits. I can tell you I went FAR past that on 968 Pistons and Pauter Rods but quickly found my power to be lacking and have since started in a new direction. I am curious did you run factory 951 exhaust with a flange change at the head?

Mikes3.0cabturbo

Fishey, I used the S2 headers untouched, and a 951 crossover which was modified. Cut the old 951 cross over flanges off and replaced them with the exhaust flanges from the S2.

I am not planning to go any further on this setup, it seems to run very well at 10psi, no detonation at all, not even when its gone over 11.5psi (accidently EBC too high), so I dont think I need water/meth injection.

I know what you mean about limits, having pushed the stock internals to +400hp I'm a little nervous, I wish I could reference from some one else been there.

If I do decide to go further then your right the rods need changing for sure.

How much HP did you get with the 968 pistons, what boost levels and compression did you run, also did you run higher rpms than stock?

thanks
mike

Fishey

Mike, my car was not boosted it ran a direct port nitrous setup with a -4an line. I ran a 6800rpm redline with stock compression (no lowering of it). I however, used racing fuels to control detonation with my nitrous setup (N20 Fuel 120oct). The HP is a secret because I don't want to give out the information but it was nicely over 400whp with so much TQ I would go sideways in 5th on my 225's. The main issue I ran into was that -4an line would not feed the nitrous fast enough. I also would blow through bottles at that shot level at a blistering pace. It was ghetto but it made my car fast enough for what it was. Now, I am heading in a new direction but will keep my nitrous setup as a kicker

Mikes3.0cabturbo

Wow awesome, was that on stock internal - pistons rods etc?

pk951

Could you explaine what kind of trigger wheel you are using for the ems to receive the single? What wireing harness are you using? New or orginal one?

Richard C

Mikes3.0cabturbo:

Thanks for sharing your information about your turbo efforts. It is always great to see and hear from someone who has actually done the work himself.

Mikes3.0cabturbo

PK951, The EMS is a stinger 4424, I run batch fire injection and distributor ignition just like stock S2.
To do this you only need a single reference signal from the crankshaft sensor. The S2 has two sensors, a cam sensor mounted at the back of the disti, and a crank sensor on top of the bellhousing which picks up the 60-2 crank teeth.

To pick up the crank signal was easy I just located the sensor wire going to the original Motronic CPU by using the Porsche wiring diagrams, cut it and connected to the standalone.

I actually have also added in the cam sensor too, but just dont use it at the moment, maybe if I went sequential injection or coil on plug, but its running so good I doubt that will happen.

Its a pleasure to be able to share Richard, I just hope it can help others if they take this route.