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1985 944 No Start

 
Old 12-10-2018, 05:29 PM
  #1  
Bartholomeow
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Default 1985 944 No Start

Hello everyone, I'm new here and I am looking for help on my 944. It has a no start issue where the engine will rev up to ~3k and die or it will be very hard to crank. It sat for 12 years before I got it, and prob some more before the previous owner got it.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ke..._obZqaeJLs0CIf
The worst part about this is that I have started it normally before, it had a coolant leak and I tore it a part. After fixing it (was the water spout gasket) it hasn't started. It also completely fouled a new set of spark plugs in the few tines I tried to start it. I've replaced the computer, spark plugs and wires, distributor cap and rotor, idle air valve, the fuel pump and relay. also the dme temp sensor and reference sensors are in spec, the afm is as well with one spot were the voltage drops.
I have yet to find anything like this online, any help will be appreciated.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:32 AM
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Just a few thoughts on that, if you can unscrew the intake boot at the air flow and squirt some starter fluid in there and crank it and it starts it is a fuel supply issue because spark is there. I have an issue right now with in tank fuel filter is total shreds and the fabric screen is getting ingested into the system and clogging things I think. Working to resolve that. Have you tried changing the fuel filter?

Last edited by 911Ragtop; 12-11-2018 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 12-11-2018, 04:28 AM
  #3  
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I have replaced the fuel filter and It does start with starter fluid. I also rebuilt the fuel tank, but after installing the filter. The old strainer was mostly rust, maybe it clogged it?
A friend helped me and we got it to run by using the key as a throttle with starter fluid in the air filter. The actual throttle did nothing. I messed with the idle screw, and kinda got it to idle? My brother thinks it needs injectors, I still cleaned them with brake clean.
The way I see it the computer is cutting fuel after the starter disengages.
I'd try to get a pro on this but I got another courtesy citation and I need it out of my drive way or fixed or they'll tow it.
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Old 12-11-2018, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Bartholomeow View Post
I have replaced the fuel filter and It does start with starter fluid. I also rebuilt the fuel tank, but after installing the filter. The old strainer was mostly rust, maybe it clogged it?
A friend helped me and we got it to run by using the key as a throttle with starter fluid in the air filter. The actual throttle did nothing. I messed with the idle screw, and kinda got it to idle? My brother thinks it needs injectors, I still cleaned them with brake clean.
The way I see it the computer is cutting fuel after the starter disengages.


I'd try to get a pro on this but I got another courtesy citation and I need it out of my drive way or fixed or they'll tow it.
IMO, the issue is the fuel injectors because of the no start and fouled plugs (are they wet). The only way to clean the injectors is to send them to a fuel injector cleaning service, the injectors are disassembled, parts are ultrasonically cleaned, reassembled, flow tested to determine proper spray pattern and fuel flow rate. The service is used was Bay Shore Fuel Injector Service, there is a website. Purchase new seals and pintle tips and spacer rings for re-installation. Wipe the o-rings with silicone grease for easier installation.
The ECU shutdowns the fuel pump if the engine rpm is below 200 rpm.
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Old 12-11-2018, 06:03 PM
  #5  
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Default One more thing

Not totally sure about this, but I know there can be issues with the flywheel sensors. My brother had an issue with starting on his 944 and replaced one and it got it going. He replaced the sensor closest to the drivers side and the car started, so even if it is to spec, for $30 bucks it might be worth a try.
There is a way to do a temporary jumper wire on the fuse box from 34 (fuel pump) and another 30amp from near by, then push the fuses back in, that takes care of the non-running fuel pump. My brother has to do this on his 85 1/2 944.

One more idea. My brother had an 83 944 with fuel pump not running. It sat for a while and I finally took a good look at it. I had been working on a 74 Porsche 914 at that time and had a few cases where electrical connections were corroded but also had a case where pushing in a relay actually backed out the connector on the other side. So when I looked at his DME relay I saw that one of the wires on the backside of the connector was pushed out therefore when the dme was pushed into it the wires never made contact. So I reached back there and pushed the connector into the right place plugged the dme into the socket and viola, the car started right up. He was like ďDude youíre a genius!Ē (Thatís how we remember it anyway doesnít happen often). Good luck.

Last edited by 911Ragtop; 12-11-2018 at 07:24 PM. Reason: Idea
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Old 12-12-2018, 04:30 AM
  #6  
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Thanks for all the info!
I'm going to try the pelican parts method of using carb cleaner on the injectors first; if it works that's $80 saved. Definite possibility that the connectors got pushed out, I've pulled the fuel relay like 8 times. Also reference sensor bracket is missing a bolt and the other one is rusted on and I don't have a spare to gap it. If neither the cleaner or the connections are the problem I'll jumper the pump.
I got the next 2 days off, and I'm expecting to bring back results. Thanks again!
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:17 AM
  #7  
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Default Get it going

I hope with the time you have you can get it going again. As far as the injectors if it runs on starter fluid it makes sense that the injectors are not the problem. Keep in mind there are four of them. From what Iíve seen injectors make the difference between running well and not running well but not a non running issue.
Have you looked at the in tank filter? If itís a steel tank should be easy to remove if itís a plastic tank be careful it can be another issue if the aluminum sleeve starts slipping when you are trying to remove the filter. I had this problem and found a purolator filter with shreds of filter fabric everywhere. Perfect material for clogging the fuel pump and filter. I ended up buying the $160 fuel tank boss to stop the tank leak issue. Epoxy is not a good solution.
Good luck on getting it going.

Last edited by 911Ragtop; 02-08-2019 at 10:28 PM.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 911Ragtop View Post
I hope with the time you have you can get it going again. As far as the injectors if it runs on starter fluid it makes sense that the injectors are not the problem. Keep in mind there are four of them. From what Iíve seen injectors make the difference between running well and not running well but not a non running issue.
Have you looked at the in tank filter? If itís a steel tank should be easy to remove if itís a plastic tank be careful it can be another issue if the aluminum sleeve starts slipping when you are trying to remove the filter. I had this problem and found an aftermarket purolator filter with screams of filter fabric everywhere. Perfect material for clogging the fuel system. Iím working on putting mine back in with epoxy.
Good luck on getting it going.
I had a no start, no run issue and the malfunctioning fuel injectors were the preceptor causing fouled spark plugs.

Had the fuel injectors professionally cleaned, installed and still no start. Replaced the fouled spark plugs and the engine started
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Old 12-16-2018, 09:47 AM
  #9  
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Default Restart

Cars that start but run poorly at least have a starting point and you can go from there . When itís a non running condition it requires a lot of trouble shooting and it could be anything or it could be multiple problems at once so like you found out fix one thing and fix something else and then it runs. On my 914 I took the injectors out put them in a jar and turned the key to start to make the fuel pump run but not the starter. I found I had an injector not producing any gas. I found out it was the electrical connection. I cleaned it up and got it going. My thought is if it runs on starter fluid itís not the injectors. Fuel line hoses on these old cars are often corroded. I got a non running 944 and tracked it down the the in tank filter and the fabric got lose and was being sucked into the fuel pump and clogged the system. I drained the gas pulled it out and found the remains. The brand was Purolator so I thibk thatís not original Porsche equipment and may work fine for a while but deteriorates. My logic is start at the begining and go from there the fuel injectors are the last link in the chain. First gas then tank filter pump and filter. I cut one of my lines horizontal after I replaced it to see what it looked like inside. It was a crusty mess and cracked. Almost split by hand no Iím in process of changing all the fuel lines front to back a very expensive process. I also have a replacement boss in order because the fuel tank sleeve stripped and the seems the best solution. (I have the plastic tank) in the end by process of elimination problems are always resolved cars are always subject to science and logic.
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Old 01-04-2019, 08:55 PM
  #10  
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Default Did you get it going

I canít help but wonder did you get this car going yet?
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:28 AM
  #11  
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Not yet, the afm's temp senor was out of spec. I ordered one from ebay that will get here the 9th. Though I have a good feeling it could also be the fuel pressure regulator...
When I try to start it It smells absolutely horrible and grey smoke clouds the driveway.
I'll pick up a fuel pressure gauge so I can test the regulators on my next day off.
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Old 01-06-2019, 10:07 PM
  #12  
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Default Almost there

bad smell seems like bad gas ? I just got my 944 fuel system together last night just need to add some gas and start it. Should be good to go. Had to replace 7 items from tank to hard line all brand new including aluminum tank boss to fix a stripped collar. So this was a costly repair and took some time to get it all on there but itís done now. I hope you can find the fix and get it going.
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:09 PM
  #13  
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Default Not running well yet.

Originally Posted by T&T Racing View Post
IMO, the issue is the fuel injectors because of the no start and fouled plugs (are they wet). The only way to clean the injectors is to send them to a fuel injector cleaning service, the injectors are disassembled, parts are ultrasonically cleaned, reassembled, flow tested to determine proper spray pattern and fuel flow rate. The service is used was Bay Shore Fuel Injector Service, there is a website. Purchase new seals and pintle tips and spacer rings for re-installation. Wipe the o-rings with silicone grease for easier installation.
The ECU shutdowns the fuel pump if the engine rpm is below 200 rpm.
Might be onto something. Now have all the rear fuel lines replaced and a problem with super rich and oily running situation. Basically the car starts but only if I floor the pedal and runs only if I floor the pedal, then it runs like crap sputtering around 5 to 700 RPMs then dies. I have all new lines in back and the new fuel boss inside the tank because my aluminum collar spun when I was taking out the in-tank fuel filter. Got all that fixed. Someone mentioned I should run the pump remotely to get the gas circulated around the system before starting. I didn't do that. Anyway current situation (which might qualify as SNAFU...) is that there is 3 gallons in the tank, seafoam in crank, oil needs change and oil filter needs change there was rust on the top... and I put new plugs in, started it, it ran like crap with the pedal floored, I pulled the new plugs and found them to be smoked with black smudge and wet with extra gas. Is this Oxygen sensor? It ran better at first try and I reved it to 5,000 rpms and a ton of white oil smoke came out the back and exhaust was smoking white oil smoke after shut down for a while. Car hasn't run for a year correctly. Trying to get this thing back on track. I also swapped DME computer, made no difference. Will be working through this. Any ideas are appreciated.
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Old 01-17-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 911Ragtop View Post
Might be onto something. Now have all the rear fuel lines replaced and a problem with super rich and oily running situation. Basically the car starts but only if I floor the pedal and runs only if I floor the pedal, then it runs like crap sputtering around 5 to 700 RPMs then dies. I have all new lines in back and the new fuel boss inside the tank because my aluminum collar spun when I was taking out the in-tank fuel filter. Got all that fixed. Someone mentioned I should run the pump remotely to get the gas circulated around the system before starting. I didn't do that. Anyway current situation (which might qualify as SNAFU...) is that there is 3 gallons in the tank, seafoam in crank, oil needs change and oil filter needs change there was rust on the top... and I put new plugs in, started it, it ran like crap with the pedal floored, I pulled the new plugs and found them to be smoked with black smudge and wet with extra gas. Is this Oxygen sensor? It ran better at first try and I reved it to 5,000 rpms and a ton of white oil smoke came out the back and exhaust was smoking white oil smoke after shut down for a while. Car hasn't run for a year correctly. Trying to get this thing back on track. I also swapped DME computer, made no difference. Will be working through this. Any ideas are appreciated.
White smoke would indicate a water leak, ie head gasket leak. Cannot remember, did you do a compression test and leak down test?
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Old 01-17-2019, 12:04 PM
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Default Getting there

I have a compression tester coming in the mail not here yet. Will do those tests when it comes in. Smoke did not smell of sweet radiator fluid and exhaust pipe let out smoke for about 30 minutes after car shut off which I thought looked like oil burning somewhere.
Also looking into security system module causing problems.
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