Mr. Toasty

Hello, Rennlist! New guy here. As a brief introduction, I bought a 944 S about a month ago and made a couple dumb mistakes, which resulted in a fire totaling the car on the drive home. That was enough to teach me to do things a bit differently the next time.

I'm now looking for a different 944 S, and I've found two complete-looking projects each about 21 hours and 1400 miles away from me (Omaha). One is in Phoenix, AZ, and the other is in Vernon, CT. Both are advertised as cranking but not running. Assuming the frame is straight, what are some things I should look for in a project 944 S? I'm planning to essentially rebuild the entire car with new rubber bits and updated/upgraded parts for spirited street use. I have some experience working on cars, so I'm not going in totally blind, just mostly blind.

My main questions are:
-are there areas of the frame/body that are prone to cracking or fatigue?
-are 944s ok to repair if the frame is slightly bent? I'm very reluctant to buy one with a bent frame, but if the community response is a resounding positive on this, I might consider it
-any sensors or relays that tend to throw in the towel after sitting for a couple years?

Any and all advice is much appreciated. I know enough to ask those with more experience than I, but I'm not going to imply any further qualification than that! I've already gotten a lot of info from stalking this forum (and others), but I know there's so much more to learn once I get my hands dirty.

Thanks in advance!!

-Toasty

ryan@usaimage.com

After a fire, no wonder your Mr Toasty. With both cars so far away and cranking but not running, I would be leery of these cars. If you knew someone close that could check a couple things for you it would be different, but people that advertise cars like this are ,for the most part, trying to unload a roach. A simple DME relay could cause the no start but surely someone with one of these cars would check something so inexpensive. Why even consider a frame bent car? Are you trying to get a car for cheap? This usually never ends up being the case in the end. I would buy a fairly sorted car to begin with. How much do you want to spend?

Ryan

951and944S

Wise enough words but sometimes, people just don't know what they have on their hands when something simple like "car quit running" and they think the only resolution is a $5000 dealer quote.

So good deals to be had.

I'd opt out of a bent frame rail car though. Fixed one of those once and had to graft in everything from the strut tower forward.

Car had sentimental value or else we would have scrapped it.

Thing about OP having someone to help on the other end...., he solidifies a contact that will/can help.
Solves issue with a DME relay and all of a sudden, seller wants +$2000 for it.

T

951and944S

Join Porsche Club of America at pca.org.

It's worth it.

Shop regional PCA classifieds.

Cars are usually PCA member owned and in overall better quality range.

T

Mr. Toasty

Thanks for the replies! Here are links to the ads, for reference:

https://phoenix.craigslist.org/cph/c...553761638.html
https://hartford.craigslist.org/cto/...556625935.html

Ryan: yes, I'm hoping to get one for cheap (under $2k), but I would never buy a project 944 and expect to fix a couple things and drive it. I worked it out that if I keep the initial price that low, I can spend a total of about $11k on initial purchase and parts for a rebuild of everything but the interior. I would do the work myself/with experienced friends. My thinking is that by gutting and rebuilding, I could have a more reliable and leak-free car than I could get for $11k in today's market. $11k gets a nice car, but I haven't seen one that's been completely rebuilt.

I'll stay away from bent frames; just asked because the AZ seller told me that there's evidence of past body work but no frame damage that he can see. But you never know. It also has a rebuilt title, which scares me a little. I'm hoping that at least one of these sellers just doesn't know what they have on their hands and just wants it gone.

Good point on joining PCA. I'll go do that.

It seems to me (again, no real 944 ownership experience here) that even if I were to buy a nicely sorted car, it would only be a matter of time before hoses and gaskets and other bits of rubber started giving up. Am I too optimistic thinking I can rebuild and prevent those leaks and worn bushings? Assuming I start with a good body, that is.

-Toasty

ryan@usaimage.com

Wow....$900.00 car looks nice. Part it out and make money on that one. It shows it on a lift so someone has looked at it and he isn't telling everything, but the price says he knows. Still worth a shot even if all the valves are bent. I have an 87 S as well as the 968 so I am familiar with the 16v cars.

Mr. Toasty

I agree, it seems like the guy knows a lot more than he's letting on. Also hasn't replied to me after a couple days of my asking for a pic of the engine. And yeah, I figured it's so cheap I could still afford a rebuilt head and a bunch of other stuff as well before getting into ridiculous costs. Aside from Lindsey Racing and 944online, are there any particularly good sources for 16v engine parts?

Found another one with two 16v engines (or so the ad says) for $1500: https://harrisburg.craigslist.org/ct...538346738.html
The seller told me he still has both engines, so I asked for pics. We'll see how legit it is, but I did see that other 944 in the background of one photo. I'm a little concerned about the doors being held together by a ratchet strap, but maybe he's just sold some of those parts already.

As for PCA, I went on there and found what appears to be a great car right away for a good price. I'd tend to trust a 20-year PCA member over some guy on CL, though. So now it's a toss-up between turn-key fun right away and work later, or lots of work right away but dream build when it's done.

951and944S

What region is the PCA car, maybe I know the person.

T

Mr. Toasty

It's in Franklin, TN. Todd Werner is the seller. The only thing I don't like is the burgundy interior; never been a fan of burgundy...

-Toasty

KevinGross

No disrespect intended, but the mere fact you're asking these questions (to a forum of largely anonymous people) makes it pretty clear to me that, absent some serious self-hatred / masochism on your part, you should run like hell from any of these cars. Unless as someone has suggested you want to start parting them out: the grey-beige interior on the first car looks decent and many carpet parts, etc. are long since NLA. I'll put $100 down on a bet that if you buy one of them, you will never see it run, at least while you still own it.

Buy something local and running. As an old car, it will nonetheless give you lots of learning challenges in terms of attention needed, and you can learn better from something in that condition than a piece of ****. Get a PPI from a local shop: you'll need them for things you cannot handle, so build the relationship from the get-go. Good luck!

951and944S

Well....., I guess that one has thread ending potential...

No offence Kevin, but isn't the OP just as "an anonymous of a person on a public forum" as anyone else in the thread...?

Neither you nor I know this person from Adam.

Many years ago I was him, and bought my first Porsche, an '87 944S (which is what drew me to the thread), a fairly new car in 1991 with 87k, a popped timing belt and everything but the short block left with me in boxes. I reassembled the engine and drove it back to the German car dealer who said I could never do it.
I daily drove that car to 200k miles, handed it to my son when he was 16.
He put another 100k on it and it sits in my shop still today and will start and drive away with a boost from a jump box.

What I am saying....., is maybe this person is me all those years ago.
I am of the cloth that would have taken your message as ammunition to prove you wrong.

I get harsh in my replies here sometimes, no doubt, it's usually the reverse situation though, where I am trying to uplift users into having the belief that "yes, you can do it".

I had keyed up a similar reply when I saw this last night and deleted it.
I thought, from what I have read in all your messages that I have run across that this was out of your character to not be supportive.

Then this morning, I thought, I owe this to the OP, who might be sitting by his computer feeling deflated when he found this place looking for support to tell a similar story about myself.

Again, no offence,

T

jhowell371

IMHO if you can afford it buy a car someone else has already dumped many thousands of dollars into. When you come across a nice looking example with recent receipts close too or exceeding the asking price then you are on the right track to good 944 experience. I did that on a couple of 944s and it pays off in the long run. After all there's no fun if it won't run. Your smileage may vary.

KevinGross

No offense taken, and none intended! I enjoyed your own story, especially that you handed down the car to your son. With respect to the OP, my response was framed in line with the odds: it's pretty unusual for someone to buy a basket case and stick with it when the car is a make and model that is cheap and plentiful. I've seen too many folks pick up basket cases that sit for years as they come to realize that that $500 deal needed hundreds or thousands of hours of labor for which they lacked the skill and time, and thousands of dollars in parts they can't afford (which is why they were attracted to the $500 car in the first place). If only they had spent $1,000 and purchase a runner they could enjoy while working through the many things needing attention. There are always exceptions, like yours, and that's great. I wish only the best for the OP and his happiness with a 944. Cheers,

Mr. Toasty

Good philosophical discussion, and I appreciate the cautions and sentiments voiced.

One reason I want to own a 944 is because I want to work on it. What better way to get to know the car inside-out than to do a complete tear-down and rebuild? An added bonus is that the final product would be my personal favorite combination of materials and little upgrades. Does that make me a masochist? Probably. I should get my head checked out by a professional some day. But it also makes me happy thinking about it, and Porsche-related happiness is the goal of all us enthusiasts, isn't it? I've also had so many sour experiences with various shops and dealers that I have no intention of going to any shop unless it's for specialty work using machines that I could only dream of owning and learning to use. The PPI I got for my screen-namesake purchase was completely useless and extremely misleading, which is one reason I wound up in this situation.

T, that's exactly the kind of experience I was hoping to have. Buy a crapcan, mostly complete and with a good shell, rebuild from the ground up and just keep it going as long as I can. Thanks for sharing your own experience; it's encouraging to know that there are others who are as nuts as I am. Beyond changing belts and other rubber bits, any tips or tricks you learned from keeping one going to 300k?

Jhowell, that would certainly reduce my final cost and shorten the timeline of work before completion. That's what spreadsheets are for!

I definitely understand the motivation behind buying the best car I can, and ideally one that is already running and well-documented. In my mind, the advantage of a project is the opportunity to spend very little on the initial purchase (which keeps financial risk low) and just enjoy the process of working with the guts of the machine.

With all that said, those projects are out. The one in AZ has a rebuilt title; no getting around the fact that it was totaled in a previous life, and with evidence of body work still noticeable, I'm not willing to trust the work of whoever rebuilt it. The $900 one is gone, and another I found in PA with two engines is already parted out enough that it's plain stupid to sink the cash for new parts into it. Now I have a mostly on-topic set of new questions:

-when should I plan on rebuilding an engine that hasn't seen track use? Any indicators or tests beyond a compression test and coolant/oil appearance?
-from what I've found online, there don't seem to be too many issues with the transaxle; is that correct, or did I miss something?
-have any of you ever bought anything from Classic9 Leather Shop? I'd like a source for quality reupholstery when it's eventually needed

-Toasty

Mr. Toasty

Yes, it's extremely unusual to wind up with a workable car for so little. I certainly never thought I could get a working car for so cheap! I made a spreadsheet and planned to put a lot of replacement parts into it over about 10 years, completing the project in stages. That's a more attractive option to me than spending the same or more on a really nice car up front. It seems that's no longer an option for now, unless there's another mostly-complete and clean-titled project 944 S floating around out there unbeknownst to me.

-Toasty