New To 928 - Looking for advise
#1
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New To 928 - Looking for advise
Hello:
I have been reading a lot of the information on this site regarding 928's. I have always loved their look and considered buying one but the cost to get the right one was always a little too far. I recently came across an 83' with a 5spd tranny. I am giving it some consideration as I have an 85 BMW 635 that I brought back from the dead after it sat for about 7 to 8 years. Its still a work in progress but its running and driving without issue. Just working on interior stuff now. Anyway, I saw this car, went to look at it and I'm thinking about getting it and storing it until I complete my current project. If it were not a 5spd tranny I would not give it a second thought but the 5spds are not too plentiful. Condition - rough! but not as rough as many i have seen. The car has 246k on it. Interior is in decent condition but will need some work and reconditioning of the leather. Rear hatch does not open. Front windshield needs replacing as it has a crack in it. Gears shift although car is not a runner. I think its been sitting for about 8 years. The exterior is red in color with alot of clear coat pealing but no rust. I can get it for probably under 2k actually I think I could get it for 1500 but the person is saying 1700 firm. Anyway If I got it I would store it for at least a year before I started in on it. Also, the car was towed in to the place its at so it has a problem of some sort, don't know. Lastly, the spider legs have alot of soot/carbon on them. As always your sage advise is welcomed. Question of the day is "Should I buy it or let this potential money pit go by the wayside?
I have been reading a lot of the information on this site regarding 928's. I have always loved their look and considered buying one but the cost to get the right one was always a little too far. I recently came across an 83' with a 5spd tranny. I am giving it some consideration as I have an 85 BMW 635 that I brought back from the dead after it sat for about 7 to 8 years. Its still a work in progress but its running and driving without issue. Just working on interior stuff now. Anyway, I saw this car, went to look at it and I'm thinking about getting it and storing it until I complete my current project. If it were not a 5spd tranny I would not give it a second thought but the 5spds are not too plentiful. Condition - rough! but not as rough as many i have seen. The car has 246k on it. Interior is in decent condition but will need some work and reconditioning of the leather. Rear hatch does not open. Front windshield needs replacing as it has a crack in it. Gears shift although car is not a runner. I think its been sitting for about 8 years. The exterior is red in color with alot of clear coat pealing but no rust. I can get it for probably under 2k actually I think I could get it for 1500 but the person is saying 1700 firm. Anyway If I got it I would store it for at least a year before I started in on it. Also, the car was towed in to the place its at so it has a problem of some sort, don't know. Lastly, the spider legs have alot of soot/carbon on them. As always your sage advise is welcomed. Question of the day is "Should I buy it or let this potential money pit go by the wayside?
Last edited by FanOf928; 01-16-2017 at 05:49 PM.
#2
Race Car
That's a lot of miles and a lot of work. Though more rare than the automatics the 5-speeds are not unicorns by any measure. For $1500 you should be able to find a 5-speed that is further along as a starting point. Even if you could get it for $500 you are still looking at $10K-$15K to finally get it to where you want. And when your done it's still a car with nearly 250K miles. You can't pay that down. I'd say look for one in better condition and lower miles, even if you have to spend up to $5K. Check out the For Sale thread. From time to time sub $5K cars pop up that seem much better off than the one you just described.
#3
Team Owner
put your check book away and find a 928 you can go test drive,
from your post their is no reason to buy one to store .
Wait till you ready to buy one to drive,
in the mean time start a (buy a good driver 928 fund.)
If you going to spend 1500 to buy one,
then you will easily quadruple that amount to get it to be a reliable and somewhat presentable DD.
Going on that,
figure that your going to need about 8K to buy a nice driver that someone else has already sunk lots of cash into
from your post their is no reason to buy one to store .
Wait till you ready to buy one to drive,
in the mean time start a (buy a good driver 928 fund.)
If you going to spend 1500 to buy one,
then you will easily quadruple that amount to get it to be a reliable and somewhat presentable DD.
Going on that,
figure that your going to need about 8K to buy a nice driver that someone else has already sunk lots of cash into
#4
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it is NOT a "potential money pit " but a clear and obvious one !! The only question is how deep of a pit ?? As a none running project it has way too many possible issues to be considered a car. And as pointed out the odometer reading kills most potential appreciation. And the failed clearcoat means it has been painted before.
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Guys, thanks for the advise. I am not surprised because I feel that way too but I guess it was the opportunity that had my interest but I agree it would be alot of work for a car that would still have 250k on it. Now with that said, I was wondering if the value in the car is in it being a parts car for the 928 I acquire in the future? I know alot of its parts are not worth it because they are worn but there could be some significant savings there? What you think? Thx.
#6
Team Owner
put your check book away and find a 928 you can go test drive.
From your post their is no reason to buy one to store, or for parts,
You have no Idea what a nice car is, let alone a basket case.
And what year you would like to own, so an early model might not be in your future.
Wait till you ready to buy one to drive,
in the mean time, start a (buy a good driver 928 fund.)
From your post their is no reason to buy one to store, or for parts,
You have no Idea what a nice car is, let alone a basket case.
And what year you would like to own, so an early model might not be in your future.
Wait till you ready to buy one to drive,
in the mean time, start a (buy a good driver 928 fund.)
#7
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I here ya...but I think I am partial to the non-interference engine 928's so for me...and this may change with time, I'll be keeping an eye out for 82 thru 84..i think. Not sure if the engine changed in 84 or not but non-interference engine would be my preference. Now I do like the visual changes of the later models but I don't, in general, care much for the interference engines in most any cars. Just me.
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#8
Race Car
Since you'll have no way of knowing what parts you'll need on another car you have yet to find buying this one as a parts car with dubious past will likely leave you frustrated. There are a lot of guys on here that will have the parts you need. Pay the small premium to buy their parts and save yourself the time, you're going to need it if you buy a non runner.
#9
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It is useless as a parts car unless you already have a 5 speed 83. Many parts aren't interchangeable year to year, and you have no idea what parts you would even need. Follow mr merlin's advice. That car sounds like a candidate for the junkyard
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I does not sound like this car has anything going for it. Be patient; a lot of cars have come on the market the last few years. It sounds like you want a project, so you should be able to pick an L-jet car with a decent interior, lower mileage, and maybe salvageable paint for less than $4k. And it should run at that price. For a point of reference, I spent less than $2k on my 80 and it ran. It needs paint and interior rework, though.
FWIW, most of the K-jets were 5-speeds, IIRC.
FWIW, most of the K-jets were 5-speeds, IIRC.
#12
Team Owner
If i was looking for an early body style car I would keep my eyes open for an 84/ 85 Euro,
You might as well get the most powerful engine with the best injection system that takes the least amount of fiddling to keep it running great.
Their are earlier Euros that also make 300HP, but the two mentioned have the most refinements and still keep the flavor of the early cars.
Your path now should be to drive a few
You might as well get the most powerful engine with the best injection system that takes the least amount of fiddling to keep it running great.
Their are earlier Euros that also make 300HP, but the two mentioned have the most refinements and still keep the flavor of the early cars.
Your path now should be to drive a few
#13
Pro
G'day FanOf928,
Firstly forget this car!!!!( the one you speak of) much better suited to a "veteran 928 enthusiast" who can use what is good on it to "donate" to an existing car.
As Stan suggested; TEST DRIVE a few first, including AUTOMATICS (ok he did not suggest that...) forget the parts car, that money could be well spent on increasing your "buying power" for that special car that just happens to come along when you are ready to go.
Why limit yourself to "non interference"? it should not make any difference if the "maintenance" is kept up; aka TB.
Theses cars by virtue of their age NEED upkeep, I would suggest that this is a fairly large attraction to most of us, they exude something COOL and, well, it just gets you smothered in it...when you get yours you will understand what I mean.
I have always dreamed of the car I have in my garage (Tony's "mokka" blimin nearly destroyed that though), I had only a slight hope that it may be a manual, however we are only 4mil strong down here, so numbers are low, however when I first saw my '79 I knew that she was the one!!! (albeit a similar feeling to meeting her indoors..., that's one for the addict thread!!!!).
I will one day own a manual, I am poised... but I will most likely never sell my '79 auto, I have only had her for 11 months and have been offered exactly 4 times what I paid, ( I have only spent NZ$1100 ish in that time. I had a picture of this on my wall as a young fella, guards red etc...)
Ok I digress,
JUST BE PATIENT!!! I buckle with envy seeing the absolutely cool cars that come up for sale in your country, and still at reasonable money.
The very best thing about these cars is driving one!!! whether it's a manual or auto, they are head turners, please don't buy your first just to store it...
Kiwi
Firstly forget this car!!!!( the one you speak of) much better suited to a "veteran 928 enthusiast" who can use what is good on it to "donate" to an existing car.
As Stan suggested; TEST DRIVE a few first, including AUTOMATICS (ok he did not suggest that...) forget the parts car, that money could be well spent on increasing your "buying power" for that special car that just happens to come along when you are ready to go.
Why limit yourself to "non interference"? it should not make any difference if the "maintenance" is kept up; aka TB.
Theses cars by virtue of their age NEED upkeep, I would suggest that this is a fairly large attraction to most of us, they exude something COOL and, well, it just gets you smothered in it...when you get yours you will understand what I mean.
I have always dreamed of the car I have in my garage (Tony's "mokka" blimin nearly destroyed that though), I had only a slight hope that it may be a manual, however we are only 4mil strong down here, so numbers are low, however when I first saw my '79 I knew that she was the one!!! (albeit a similar feeling to meeting her indoors..., that's one for the addict thread!!!!).
I will one day own a manual, I am poised... but I will most likely never sell my '79 auto, I have only had her for 11 months and have been offered exactly 4 times what I paid, ( I have only spent NZ$1100 ish in that time. I had a picture of this on my wall as a young fella, guards red etc...)
Ok I digress,
JUST BE PATIENT!!! I buckle with envy seeing the absolutely cool cars that come up for sale in your country, and still at reasonable money.
The very best thing about these cars is driving one!!! whether it's a manual or auto, they are head turners, please don't buy your first just to store it...
Kiwi
Last edited by Kiwi'79; 01-18-2017 at 06:36 AM. Reason: Grammarrrrrrrrr
#14
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Several responses point to dumping your requirement for a non-interference engine. While there is some discussion about early Euro 16V S cars and whether they are interference engines, the larger-horsepower example are going to be interference engines. The early cars have a weight advantage that diminishes as you move up in the years. A well-tuned US OB 5-speed with 4.5 CIS feels a lot more nimble than my later S4 automatic car. But the refined performance of the later car, actually quite a bit quicker with better handling and brakes, is addictive too. Stan's recommendation for some of the later Euro S models covers a lot of what both cars offer, if you can find one in good condition. Of course, these more desirable cars come with a proportionally higher buy-in, and are somewhat more complex to maintain. Still, the difference in maintenance is a small fraction of the overall effort. Almost any car that's been ignored or forgotten for a while has the potential to have lots of hidden problems, so needs to be considered with a cynical mindset.
Visit with other owners in your neighborhood, and take the opportunity to ride in, drive if possible, and get an idea of what you are getting in to. Others in the group will help you evaluate candidate cars that you find, with the jaundiced view that comes from their own experiences and the shared experiences of others here. For the longest time, we read of folks who visit after they've purchased a neglected car for a low price. Then they lose interest when the costs of recovery start to add up. The car gets a spot in the garage, barn or back yard, until someone decides it needs to go. Then the cycle repeats.
Think about an idea that every car you look at is a $20k car. You can buy one for $5k and spend $15k getting it safe and reliable and looking presentable. Or find one for $15k that runs, drives, looks great already, with only $5k needed to get it to that safe and reliable condition. The second option is much better, with a car that you can enjoy almost immediately. Or the first option that eats a year of spare time as you fix things one system at a time.
Visit with other owners in your neighborhood, and take the opportunity to ride in, drive if possible, and get an idea of what you are getting in to. Others in the group will help you evaluate candidate cars that you find, with the jaundiced view that comes from their own experiences and the shared experiences of others here. For the longest time, we read of folks who visit after they've purchased a neglected car for a low price. Then they lose interest when the costs of recovery start to add up. The car gets a spot in the garage, barn or back yard, until someone decides it needs to go. Then the cycle repeats.
Think about an idea that every car you look at is a $20k car. You can buy one for $5k and spend $15k getting it safe and reliable and looking presentable. Or find one for $15k that runs, drives, looks great already, with only $5k needed to get it to that safe and reliable condition. The second option is much better, with a car that you can enjoy almost immediately. Or the first option that eats a year of spare time as you fix things one system at a time.
#15
Drifting
Money Pit? At least it's better than a boat, they sink.
So you found an '83 5 speed. GREAT!!! My first questions are: Is it a EURO? What is the engine #. If you have a 28/11 engine, then it's a 300+hp non-interference engine, hotter cams, 10:1 compression, 97mm pistons K-Jet F.I. and NO COMPUTER.. The early models are a little lighter, and with 300 hp, you're not giving away much performance compared with the later 32 valve cars. JMHO.
I picked up an '83 5 speed Euro-S 6 years ago. I found mine on a car dealer's lot, Black Tie Classic Autos(.com) It had sat on their lot for 5 years, that I know of and had 164K miles on it but it ran. They wanted $5900 for it, but I did my best 'Clint Eastwood', walked in with a 'fist full of dollars', counted down 35 $100 dollar bills and said "DEAL OR NO DEAL'. People just can't say 'NO' to a pile of Greenbacks. LOL. The last thing the dealer heard was the roar of the pipes and a loud "YEEEEHAAAAA" from me as I drove it away. So far I've put about $4k in parts into it, so I figure I'm into it about $1500 over the asking price. I have no problem putting $2>3K in parts on it each year for the next 5 years or so. BUT then I'm NEVER selling mine, so my payback is in "Miles & Smiles".
The guys are right about parts being 'year specific'. They only made 719 5-speed Euros in '83, and US model parts generally won't fit. But mine has K-jet and I replaced all 8 injectors with M.B. '047' injectors for a total of $236!! That's about what it costs for one L-jet injector.
The important question is: Why do you want a 928?? To sell on and make money on it? Fagedaboutit. You'll never make a dime. Because it's exotic, rare, beautiful, and has a 'Drool Factor' of 10,000? Are you going to build it up and drive it forever?
Money Pit?? Aren't they all? "You're just $10,000 away from a nice $5000 car." I guess it depends on your viewpoint. To my girlfriend she's: "That old blue P.O.S. you're ALWAYS working on, Doesn't even have a radio" To me, she's 'ZoomHilda' my 'Fat @ssed German Mistress'. She's a beautiful, exotic, head turner that becomes an absolute MONSTER on the Interstates and nobody can believe she's 34 years old! They don't make cars like this anymore, AND THEY NEVER WILL!!
Still 264K miles on a non runner for $2k? I'd have to think long and hard about that one. At least I could drive the one I got home. If you can spin the motor over with the starter, at least you can check compression and maybe odd expensive noises. It seems the reason 'the car won't run' is usually about 60% electrical and 40% mechanical. If you got a Beemer back to life after sitting 8 years, you're not going into this TOTALLY blind. I wouldn't want to have 2 project cars going at the same time. That's just too much for me.
I've done the 'Wheeler-Dealer' thing with cars for YEARS. The least profit I made was $500 in a '69 Corvair Monza GT. The most I made was $6000 by selling a '73 Renault R-17 Gordini that I junkyard rescued for $500, built up and sold to one of my son's SCCA racer buddies.
The reason I got my 928 is purely emotional. ( I know- BAD REASON!). When I first saw 'Risky Business', I fell TERMINALLY in LUST with Rebecca De Mornay and the 928. Being a (mostly) rational person, I knew I didn't have a chance in He!! of getting my hands on Rebecca, but if I kept my eyes open I might get a 928. I don't use mine as a daily driver, I have 'The Great White Whale', a 2002 Dodge Discovery conversion van, for that.
Back to your question: Should I buy it? A non runner with 246K miles on the clock? Take your time and think about it. I don't think it's going off the market anytime soon. Think of the work you put into the Beemer. A 928 will be 2 times the work and 3 times the cost. I priced a new Warm Up (control pressure) Regulator for my K-Jet car and the price was $2600 on EBay!!! And I paid $3500 for the entire car!! I got a rebuild kit from SALVOX on Ebay for $59 and it had EVERYTHING: New gaskets, 'O' rings, seals, crush washers and even a new diaphragm plate.
DO go out and find a 928 to drive or at least ride in so you know what the car SHOULD be like. A windshield will go about $500+. A stuck hatch means new latch parts, another $100+ or so. To quote Clint: "A man has to know his limitations".
Here's a pic of 'ZoomHilda' with 'The Great White Whale' in the background.
I picked up an '83 5 speed Euro-S 6 years ago. I found mine on a car dealer's lot, Black Tie Classic Autos(.com) It had sat on their lot for 5 years, that I know of and had 164K miles on it but it ran. They wanted $5900 for it, but I did my best 'Clint Eastwood', walked in with a 'fist full of dollars', counted down 35 $100 dollar bills and said "DEAL OR NO DEAL'. People just can't say 'NO' to a pile of Greenbacks. LOL. The last thing the dealer heard was the roar of the pipes and a loud "YEEEEHAAAAA" from me as I drove it away. So far I've put about $4k in parts into it, so I figure I'm into it about $1500 over the asking price. I have no problem putting $2>3K in parts on it each year for the next 5 years or so. BUT then I'm NEVER selling mine, so my payback is in "Miles & Smiles".
The guys are right about parts being 'year specific'. They only made 719 5-speed Euros in '83, and US model parts generally won't fit. But mine has K-jet and I replaced all 8 injectors with M.B. '047' injectors for a total of $236!! That's about what it costs for one L-jet injector.
The important question is: Why do you want a 928?? To sell on and make money on it? Fagedaboutit. You'll never make a dime. Because it's exotic, rare, beautiful, and has a 'Drool Factor' of 10,000? Are you going to build it up and drive it forever?
Money Pit?? Aren't they all? "You're just $10,000 away from a nice $5000 car." I guess it depends on your viewpoint. To my girlfriend she's: "That old blue P.O.S. you're ALWAYS working on, Doesn't even have a radio" To me, she's 'ZoomHilda' my 'Fat @ssed German Mistress'. She's a beautiful, exotic, head turner that becomes an absolute MONSTER on the Interstates and nobody can believe she's 34 years old! They don't make cars like this anymore, AND THEY NEVER WILL!!
Still 264K miles on a non runner for $2k? I'd have to think long and hard about that one. At least I could drive the one I got home. If you can spin the motor over with the starter, at least you can check compression and maybe odd expensive noises. It seems the reason 'the car won't run' is usually about 60% electrical and 40% mechanical. If you got a Beemer back to life after sitting 8 years, you're not going into this TOTALLY blind. I wouldn't want to have 2 project cars going at the same time. That's just too much for me.
I've done the 'Wheeler-Dealer' thing with cars for YEARS. The least profit I made was $500 in a '69 Corvair Monza GT. The most I made was $6000 by selling a '73 Renault R-17 Gordini that I junkyard rescued for $500, built up and sold to one of my son's SCCA racer buddies.
The reason I got my 928 is purely emotional. ( I know- BAD REASON!). When I first saw 'Risky Business', I fell TERMINALLY in LUST with Rebecca De Mornay and the 928. Being a (mostly) rational person, I knew I didn't have a chance in He!! of getting my hands on Rebecca, but if I kept my eyes open I might get a 928. I don't use mine as a daily driver, I have 'The Great White Whale', a 2002 Dodge Discovery conversion van, for that.
Back to your question: Should I buy it? A non runner with 246K miles on the clock? Take your time and think about it. I don't think it's going off the market anytime soon. Think of the work you put into the Beemer. A 928 will be 2 times the work and 3 times the cost. I priced a new Warm Up (control pressure) Regulator for my K-Jet car and the price was $2600 on EBay!!! And I paid $3500 for the entire car!! I got a rebuild kit from SALVOX on Ebay for $59 and it had EVERYTHING: New gaskets, 'O' rings, seals, crush washers and even a new diaphragm plate.
DO go out and find a 928 to drive or at least ride in so you know what the car SHOULD be like. A windshield will go about $500+. A stuck hatch means new latch parts, another $100+ or so. To quote Clint: "A man has to know his limitations".
Here's a pic of 'ZoomHilda' with 'The Great White Whale' in the background.