GlenL

It all starts pretty simply, doesn't it?

I got this engine from a '79 US car and thought to put it into my '80 Euro S while rebuilding the S engine. Both are CIS. Should be just a drop in and I could drive the car around while taking my time with the S rebuild.

"I'll clean it up, put a new T-belt on it and drop the sucker in!"

The '79 engine came from a partially-parts donor car and the engine was in a bit of disassembly itself. I couldn't figure out what the problem was that they may have been getting to. The engine seems to have good compression based on a simple "right arm" test: good, consistent resistance every 90 degrees.

There's lots of oil and caked gunk on the engine. Looks like it needs a re-seal and oil pan gasket. The water pump is sticky, but I've got a few appropriate used ones on hand. Still putting less than a hundred bucks into it.

Then I got thinking about pulling the heads and doing the cylinder head gaskets....and the fish kettle opened.

I've got a bunch of parts in the garage. Among them is an '83 (M28/20) block, heads and cams. Looks OK. Heads are off and it all looks good. Why not rebuild that and have a few more HP? Thinking:

M28/20 block, pistons and heads.
M28/04 Cams and FI system

I could put the '83 heads on the '79 block. I'm not finding complete info on cc's of heads and pistons. The '83 is listed as a 9.3 CR while the '79 is 8.5 so the head volume is likely less on the '83.

I'd use the square-belt gears. They're all steel and never wear. I'd keep the older "no sag" motor mounts, too. I'm going to leave the blocks alone and not replace rings or bearings. That's down the slope to even more time and money.

Any opinions on mixing/matching parts?

The target car is a 1980 manual. Is there an issue on mounting the starer (or anything else) with the '83 block?

Thanks!

mark kibort

yep, drop it in. whats the question? only lose 50hp if you drop in the 79, but why not use the 4.7 block?
the reason that the CRs are lower is not the heads, but the pistons. 79 vs US 83. heads are the same, as i remember. cams are decent from 79, but junk in 82 or 84 compared to euroS.

GlenL

As to the '83 4.7l block, will there be any problem using it with a '80 manual transmission? Something I know is that the starter in '83 mounts to a bracket on the block while in '80 the starter mounts to the lower bellhousing cover. I believe I can remove the bracket and then go with the old starter mounting. That works with the ring gear.

Is there anything else to consider in using an '84 block in an '80 car? I don't want to be laying underneath the car thinking "oh ****!" I've done that often enough.

Would there be any issue with the '79 cams on '84 heads and pistons?

Is there some advantage in putting the '83 heads on the '79 block or '79 heads on the '83 block?

Any other clever ideas?

mark kibort

i do remember that the bell housing and starter mouts were different, but that was just a bell housing change to lose that piece of steel for weight savings and the entire bell housing just drops with the starter then. more convenient.

no problem mixing and matching the heads as i think there are no differences. no problem with the cams... the 79 cams just have better duration and timing and i think the same lift. the 83 US pistons have a lot of room for more valve depression as that was one of my first major mods with my US 84... using the suro SCams . no issues.

i think both the 79 and 83 heads had the same combustion chamber and did have the same valve size too. no advantage as i can remember at all.

the only challenge is when you do a full US 4.7 83-4 block to a 85 US 5 liter block and mate to euro S 80-85 stuff. Piston valve cuts, cold start system, alternator mounting, porting "U" to match bigger throttle body, etc etc.

GlenL

Will these wheels fit? What's the best oil? Where's this connector go?

Better...

Any opinions on putting '79 US cams and CIS onto an '83 US long block?

GlenL

Well...

I decided to stay off the slope and do the easiest, cheapest things and leave the '79 4.5l mostly together and not mess with the '83 engine. I've got that as a 97mm backup to my track cars. That thought clinched it for me. And that I was looking at head work and parts moving past $500, easily, for what's supposed to be a temporary motor.

So I'll just put in all new seals, the oil pan gasket, fix the water bridge leak, remove all that OB emissions and odd crap.

Fun PO find: Someone had used RTV to fix a leak on the outside of the oil pump. Had it glued in there, basically, and there was RTV between the back of the pump and the block. There was also some odd hose connections fabbed for the breather system. That's all going away.

mark kibort

have you been drinking???

the 79 cams are better than the US 83 cams. BUT, so small of a diff.. why.

so, get euro cams and intake and that would be a fun car 240ish rwhp!

com'mon.. do something creative.. get some extra ponies if you are going through the work! make it nice and you can sell it when you are done.

GlenL

Thought about that but I'd keep it as a back-up. I don't think I could get the money for it that I'd put into it, anyways.

1st post: "I got this engine from a '79 US car and thought to put it into my '80 Euro S while rebuilding the S engine." I have two 1980 Euro S cars.

The "S" engine is getting several power mods as it will be my next track car and, possibly, a PCA D-class racer.

James Bailey

OH NO !!! you said track car and racer to Kibort .....

GlenL

I know. I know...

I'm blogging the project over at that site with no traffic.
http://reutterwerk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32369

mark kibort

Yeah.. hate to offer some experience here from either racing or mixing and matching successfully almost all possible combinations of euroS and US engines!
(*complete with pictures and dyno runs along the way!

so, why does reuterwerk get all the good stuff... give us the story here!

sounds like a lot of work while you "rebuild " your euroS . what type of power mods are you doing? and if you have two cars, why not just use the other one while the euroS is down? or am i missing something?

"how many boats can you ski behind, Gordon??"

GlenL

Right. So I decided to minimize the rebuild of the temporary engine.

No quotes on "rebuild" needed. It'll all be apart and put back together better, smarter and faster.

For power it'll be '85 exhaust manifolds, shaved heads, advanced cams and power-tuned. Likely some porting and polishing. I'm also putting in an I-J windage kit to address the oiling issue. Plus mods like later tensioner, oil pump and pickup.

If the car is moving then I can work on the engine for months without having the body block progress. These cars don't like to sit.

Yes, you are missing something. I have multiple vehicles and a two-car garage. I like to rotate the cars between storage and home and be able to free-up a stall for work.

One at a time but each boat has its own character.