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I thought hard about bidding on that car. What stopped me were Greg Brown's warnings about GTS parts unavailability, and the seller's report that the leakdown test showed leaking past piston rings. I also wasn't crazy about the color combo and the exhaust character.
The above quote is a case in point: GB has hammered so may cars that people who would otherwise bid on a car simply throw up their hands and leave the market. Everyone looses in this environment!
All collector cars have unique and interesting work arounds - our vendors should support the market in general.
In my ideal 928 world, our vendors should not be commenting negatively on potential customers or other 928 owners cars. IMO Vendors should be our greatest allies instead of spreading fear and blowing technical issues up into monumental problems that only they and lots of $$'s going to them can fix.
Fortunately there are multiple great vendors and mechanics to work with.
The above quote is a case in point: GB has hammered so may cars that people who would otherwise bid on a car simply throw up their hands and leave the market. Everyone looses in this environment!
All collector cars have unique and interesting work arounds - our vendors should support the market in general.
In my ideal 928 world, our vendors should not be commenting negatively on potential customers or other 928 owners cars. IMO Vendors should be our greatest allies instead of spreading fear and blowing technical issues up into monumental problems that only they and lots of $$'s going to them can fix.
Fortunately there are multiple great vendors and mechanics to work with.
Personally, I value GB's insight. Would it be the only factor in my buying decision? No. But, potential 928 buyers need some education. He was not wrong about the availability of parts. And the honesty of the seller should be commended as it regards the leakdown test. I have not read GB's comment about the leakdown test, but that can be an expensive adventure. Buyers need to have eyes wide open when bidding on a 928. Seems half the 928 buyer population thinks the 928 is a cheap Porsche only to learn about the lack parts availability and maintenance. Then they sell it to the next owner who thinks it's a cheap Porsche. And this goes on until it lands in somebody's field unrecognizable. So, if GB prevents somebody unready to own and maintain a 928 from buying one I say Good!
Personally, I value GB's insight. Would it be the only factor in my buying decision? No. But, potential 928 buyers need some education. He was not wrong about the availability of parts. And the honesty of the seller should be commended as it regards the leakdown test. I have not read GB's comment about the leakdown test, but that can be an expensive adventure. Buyers need to have eyes wide open when bidding on a 928. Seems half the 928 buyer population thinks the 928 is a cheap Porsche only to learn about the lack parts availability and maintenance. Then they sell it to the next owner who thinks it's a cheap Porsche. And this goes on until it lands in somebody's field unrecognizable. So, if GB prevents somebody unready to own and maintain a 928 from buying one I say Good!
Kevin,
Thanks for your comment. I also enjoyed GB's sharing of knowledge and most of us have learned quite a bit from him. So, we agree that the knowledge base is there.
How it is applied in public forums is where the break down occurred for me.
Collector cars are expensive hobbies and some do not understand that. Many 928's have been lost because to the crusher because of the low cost of entry for many years (as you suggest) but if the cost of entry were higher, those cars would not fall into the hands of people that simply can not afford them.
How one words things does matter and I would prefer to take my car to you for any repair needed.
I think the BAT discussion function isn‘t good for the platform. The seller should have a function to copy questions and answer but nobody needs the long threads resulting of this.
Linking interesting 928 on Rennlist and discussing them as community here is another thing, I think it’s ok.
I think the BAT discussion function isn‘t good for the platform.
That is quite literally the key of the incredible success of BaT. There isn’t much difference between it and other auction platforms. The ability to have immediate Q&As and receive the perspective from other users is invaluable to the bidders (and therefore increases the ability to pay, which is one of the reasons why people often think that auction prices on BaT are higher than elsewhere).
Not to mention the level of engagement created by the comments section is astounding. For any other auction, there would be little reason to come back to the auction until the end of the auction. On BaT, watchers come back daily or more to read comments.
Finally, the fact the BaT keeps all auctions online after the sale is a gold mine of information for anyone trying to learn about a specific car and what to look for when buying one. One can learn a ton and very quickly by reading questions, answers, looking at the referenced photos, reading other owners’ experiences, etc…
Of course, like any user generated content (comments or reviews), users need to be able to gauge which comments and opinions are useful and which are to be discarded. In that sense, BaT isn’t perfect. We should be able to vote down, not just up, and there should be an ignore function to automatically ignore some users (e.g. those that are rude, confrontational, annoying or spreading misinformation). The total thumb likes next to a user name is not good enough. It’s more proportional to a user comments count, than their quality or usefulness.
Pictures are great, the comment function pushes sellers to a good picture collection and history of the car but smartasses can lead the discussion in the wrong direction.
That is quite literally the key of the incredible success of BaT. There isn’t much difference between it and other auction platforms. The ability to have immediate Q&As and receive the perspective from other users is invaluable to the bidders (and therefore increases the ability to pay, which is one of the reasons why people often think that auction prices on BaT are higher than elsewhere).
Not to mention the level of engagement created by the comments section is astounding. For any other auction, there would be little reason to come back to the auction until the end of the auction. On BaT, watchers come back daily or more to read comments.
Finally, the fact the BaT keeps all auctions online after the sale is a gold mine of information for anyone trying to learn about a specific car and what to look for when buying one. One can learn a ton and very quickly by reading questions, answers, looking at the referenced photos, reading other owners’ experiences, etc…
Of course, like any user generated content (comments or reviews), users need to be able to gauge which comments and opinions are useful and which are to be discarded. In that sense, BaT isn’t perfect. We should be able to vote down, not just up, and there should be an ignore function to automatically ignore some users (e.g. those that are rude, confrontational, annoying or spreading misinformation). The total thumb likes next to a user name is not good enough. It’s more proportional to a user comments count, than their quality or usefulness.
^ This X 928. BaT isn’t BaT without the comments. It truly revolutionized online auctions with the model, and since then, the newer platforms all follow the BaT model to more or less the same extent. Also, I strongly disagree with those people who say only bidders should be allowed to comment or only those who have bought or sold through the platform should be allowed to comment. Some of the best comments from marque experts come from people who have never bought, sold or bid. The reason the comments model makes the platform so valuable is because bidder/buyers typically will never get the chance to physically inspect the car before buying it, so like a Wiki model, the buyer can make a more well informed decision based on many eyes looking at the car, plus experts pointing out the stuff one needs to know and understand about the car.
I completely agree with Ed's opinion regarding the non buyers comments on BAT, they're invaluable as far as I'm concerned, buyers need to be more educated and do their due diligence before making a serious bid.
I started looking at purchasing a 928 about 2.5 years ago and used many comments on BAT and Rennlist, many of GB's comments regarding issues were very disheartening as I searched for a 928. I did feel most of his comments were from the heart, having the knowledge and hands on experience he has. I didn't realize how expensive maintenance could be if I wasn't going to do the work myself but eventually after much research, I, with in valuable help from ED found and purchased my unmolested 86.5, it's a AT ( the transmission GB said parts were more available for and solidified my desire for a AT) everytime I drive it I love it more! ( Highway cruising is amazing) Off subject, why does my car smell so damn good inside, is it the type of leather?
I'll echo the need for the comments as being important, and add that occasionally even the most thorough for sale ad can miss something. This also helps if the seller is prompt with the updated information, or really is telling when there is little to no seller participation to clarify things that the bidding pool should be aware of. Not everyone gets the luxury of an internet forum to dig through years of obscure accumulated knowledge. However, you would hope that an educated buyer (of any car) can look past fifteen people asking for a DME report on a 996 Turbo, or whether or not the heads have been addressed on a C6 Z06.
The comments and questions are important sources of information and this forum is obviously a great source of information. In the case of the Continental Orange BAT auction that was basically blown up by what I consider to be inappropriate comments (by a 928 vendor) the line gets crossed. The seller provided an honest representation of a well used car and was (IMO) accused of splicing a couple of cars together and the frame/unibody and VIN being badly compromised. Is that the way for any of us to treat the seller of a tastefully modified car?
Historically, another vendor also hammered on low mile 928's and particularly GTS's so badly that people simply avoid the cars or repeat his comments. This is not good for the 928 community or the owners of some really great cars.
My .02 is that it's OK to ask questions and allow sellers to answer those questions. But making accusatory or insinuative comments that drive cars values down over and over has hurt the 928 market in general.
This comment is from a serious 928 collector and huge fan of the 928.
P.S. Our community is rich in people with vast experience with 928's. It is not like trying to maintain a Maserati, Ferrari, McLaren or other exotic.
Cross posted in the CS thread: Wasn't sure whether to put this here or in the for sale thread, but the Broad Arrow Forest Green metallic over tan 89 CS reached a $232,500 bid, but did not sell. It is now on offer for $250,000. TNote - this is a 120000 KM car that suffered a rear end collision, and it still exceeded $200K ! Dayum!!
Interesting comments about BaT. I essentially have been banned from BaT because I asked the honest hard questions and pointed out flagrantly fraudulent comments by unscrupulous sellers. Most of the comments I see that get flagged are usually the important questions needing answers. But they hurt the sale price or result in RNM when the truth is pointed out. Since BaT was sold their mindset is all about selling the car no matter the honesty or lack there of. People start praising a car that is a huge turd and like most Social media sites these days if you don't drink the kool aid you are scoffed at. How many bad cars I have looked at after the sale only to inform the buyer they need 40% or more of what they paid to fix what the seller swore was not an issue. People need to get back to having PPI's done and enough of these auctions that sell inferior cars for premium dollars. There are very few sellers I would trust on BaT and the comments that need to be made seem to never get posted. I try to praise and help the sellers of good cars but they ban those as well. The bad cars are so bad I don't know how people continue to over pay for convenience. But like everything added fees and costs don't seem to bother people like it did.
Interesting comments about BaT. I essentially have been banned from BaT because I asked the honest hard questions and pointed out flagrantly fraudulent comments by unscrupulous sellers. Most of the comments I see that get flagged are usually the important questions needing answers. But they hurt the sale price or result in RNM when the truth is pointed out. Since BaT was sold their mindset is all about selling the car no matter the honesty or lack there of. People start praising a car that is a huge turd and like most Social media sites these days if you don't drink the kool aid you are scoffed at. How many bad cars I have looked at after the sale only to inform the buyer they need 40% or more of what they paid to fix what the seller swore was not an issue. People need to get back to having PPI's done and enough of these auctions that sell inferior cars for premium dollars. There are very few sellers I would trust on BaT and the comments that need to be made seem to never get posted. I try to praise and help the sellers of good cars but they ban those as well. The bad cars are so bad I don't know how people continue to over pay for convenience. But like everything added fees and costs don't seem to bother people like it did.
Good job! There is a big difference between "Honest and hard questions" and incorrect accusations of a car being clipped and the vin being compromised. Especially with an auction where the buyer most likely will be from another country. I have seen some of your questions and you keep them as questions and do not provide leading answers, from what I have seen.
I have not bought a car on BAT (yet) because I need more information than that format can ever provide... Independent PPi's are mandatory!
Then there are totally misrepresented cars like this one:
Most flagrant misrepresented in pictures especially the dash no cracks in the pictures. It arrived from the owner to us with at least a dozen severe cracks. Doctored pictures throughout the listing.
08-17-2024, 12:45 PM
