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Whoa Nate - that's actually a federal offense to tamper with an odometer - either way.
Yeah I guess didn't think that would apply when going in the other direction.
So what is the rule on this? For example my car is a US version and at some point in it's life someone installed a KPH/KM speedo. The car when I received it had 2,095 km on the odo. My car clearly was not a 1300 mile car. I know this because is has an oil change sticker on it from 2003 that read 64,XXX. I was able to get a hold of the owner of the small service shop that did the oil change and he knew the PO and confirmed that the '03 change was the last time the car was serviced at his place and was not driven by the PO after that as she was elderly and had medical issues shortly after which left her essentially bed-ridden. Therefore when I replaced the speedometer with a correct US version I set the odo at 64,XXX (my best guess at the actual mileage). So clearly not odo fraud, but yes the odo was "tampered" with. And what about the cases where the odo gear has broken and gets replaced? Am I being naive to think that most owners adjust the odo to a mileage that they believe is more accurate?
I think the answer would be to state the shown mileage with the modifier, "TMU" for true mileage unknown. It then sparks a conversation where you can explain it. On the annual registration, just enter the actual mileage shown on the odo. A Carfax will percolate the inconsistency up to anyone looking to buy, and if being sold as a TMU car, then you can simply explain why.
I think the answer would be to state the shown mileage with the modifier, "TMU" for true mileage unknown. It then sparks a conversation where you can explain it. On the annual registration, just enter the actual mileage shown on the odo. A Carfax will percolate the inconsistency up to anyone looking to buy, and if being sold as a TMU car, then you can simply explain why.
I agree --^
One of my clients with a with-records-from-new '87 was concerned enough about 'the story' that when his odometer gear broke, we pulled the cluster and sent it to Hollywood Speedo so that we'd have a third-party record of cluster repair rather than do it ourselves. That's an expensive way to do it, but it keeps mileage doubts to a minimum.
I think the answer would be to state the shown mileage with the modifier, "TMU" for true mileage unknown. It then sparks a conversation where you can explain it. On the annual registration, just enter the actual mileage shown on the odo. A Carfax will percolate the inconsistency up to anyone looking to buy, and if being sold as a TMU car, then you can simply explain why.
Originally Posted by worf928
I agree --^
One of my clients with a with-records-from-new '87 was concerned enough about 'the story' that when his odometer gear broke, we pulled the cluster and sent it to Hollywood Speedo so that we'd have a third-party record of cluster repair rather than do it ourselves. That's an expensive way to do it, but it keeps mileage doubts to a minimum.
Good points but that doesn't address a situation like mine above. I bought a used US speedo that I think read 125,xxx miles. I didn't want to keep those miles because that was some other car's history not mine. I had the speedo restored by Buz Ras at Seattle Speedometer and had him set the odo to 64,XXX because that was the best record of actual miles I could document. The other option, which is what Ed suggests, would have been to have him set it to 1300 miles (the mileage of the KPH unit I was replacing), but that was clearly incorrect. When I take the car to shows I don't want people sticking their head in and see 1300 miles and then look at the condition of my car and walk away thinking, "well that's a bunch of BS". What would you guys have done in my situation?
Interesting car. That cell phone antenna looks like it is mounted right in the middle of where the sunroof would be. Very Smokey and the Bandit location, I'd say. Mine was mounted on the hatch, midway between the top of the glass and the top hatch seam.
Whoa Nate - that's actually a federal offense to tamper with an odometer - either way.
So I had a similar TMU unknown and/or mileage discrepancy situation for an 82 here in Ohio. I called the State BMV and asked them about forwarding the odometer o a proper estimate. It was legal if a written affidavit was signed by all previous owners and some other legal stuff that i decided in the end was not worth the view. I chose to highlight the discrepancy to the next buyer instead.
So I had a similar TMU unknown and/or mileage discrepancy situation for an 82 here in Ohio. I called the State BMV and asked them about forwarding the odometer o a proper estimate. It was legal if a written affidavit was signed by all previous owners and some other legal stuff that i decided in the end was not worth the view. I chose to highlight the discrepancy to the next buyer instead.
Interesting. I looked it up here in the state of Washington. Here is an excerpt from the State's RCW 46.37.540 "Odometers—Disconnecting, resetting, or turning back prohibited.".
(1) The legislature intends to make it illegal for persons to turn forward the odometer on a new car to avoid compliance with the emissions standards required by chapter 295, Laws of 2005.
(2) It shall be unlawful for any person to disconnect, turn back, turn forward, or reset the odometer of any motor vehicle with the intent to change the number of miles indicated on the odometer gauge. A violation of this subsection is a gross misdemeanor.
However when you go to sell a car here you are required to submit an odometer disclosure form. The requirements for that form are spelled out in RCW 46.12.655 "Odometer Disclosure Statement Required - Exemptions". Here are some pertinent excerpts:
(f) Information that the odometer statement is required by the federal truth in mileage act of 1986 and that failure to complete the odometer statement or providing false information may result in fines or imprisonment, or both; and
(g) One of the following statements: (i) The mileage shown is actual to the best of transferor's knowledge;
(ii) The odometer reading exceeds the mechanical limits of the odometer to the best of the transferor's knowledge; or (iii) The odometer reading is not the actual mileage.
If the odometer reading is under one hundred thousand miles, the only options that can be certified are "actual to the best of the transferor's knowledge" or "not the actual mileage." If the odometer reading is one hundred thousand miles or more, the options "actual to the best of the transferor's knowledge" or "not the actual mileage" cannot be used unless the odometer has six digit capability.
It goes on to state...
(4) The following vehicles are not subject to odometer disclosure requirements at the time of ownership transfer:
(a) A motor vehicle having a declared gross vehicle weight of more than sixteen thousand pounds;
(b) A vehicle that is not self-propelled; (c) A motor vehicle that is ten years old or older;
(d) A motor vehicle sold directly by a manufacturer to a federal agency in conformity with contract specifications; or
(e) A new motor vehicle before its first retail sale.
So it seems to me that these two regulations conflict for cars older than 10 years. It is unlawful to adjust the odometer yet you are not required to disclose the mileage anyway.
To me it just seems that there should be a way for an honest Joe to adjust an odometer to reflect the mileage that is, to the best of his knowledge, accurate other than requiring Joe to install an odometer with a reading that is knowingly incorrect. In both cases when the car is sold a TMU statement would be required.
But in my case the whole thing is moot. I'm never selling the car.
Interesting car. That cell phone antenna looks like it is mounted right in the middle of where the sunroof would be. Very Smokey and the Bandit location, I'd say. Mine was mounted on the hatch, midway between the top of the glass and the top hatch seam.
If the "recaro" pattern on the seats isn't bad enough, I would wonder about the location of the power control buttons w/i the seat bolster - maybe not problem, but the pattern is a turn off. Is no one concerned about the wiring around the 14-pin connector?
The famous 'Geneva car' prototype had those exact seats with Pasha at its first showing. So it could be claimed that they are legitimat-ish in this application, I think.
So I had a similar TMU unknown and/or mileage discrepancy situation for an 82 here in Ohio. I called the State BMV and asked them about forwarding the odometer o a proper estimate. It was legal if a written affidavit was signed by all previous owners and some other legal stuff that i decided in the end was not worth the view. I chose to highlight the discrepancy to the next buyer instead.
My former 1990GT, bought it as a flip, sold it to a respected enthusiast who did 10k of deferred maintenance to it. Out of the 3 I have had and ones I have test drove , this one was the best original one as far as condition and driving performance.Well worth the price.
03-07-2019, 02:23 PM
