78 Euro 6k - Knoxville
04-28-2016, 10:07 AM
#46
Administrator - "Tyson"
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People keep saying this without an explanation.
Does this mean a car that was $10k a few years ago selling for $100k today will be back to $10k? Or will it "settle" to $75k or $50k?
Will that $30 million Ferrari 250 GTO only be worth $15 million?
I've been hearing about the bubble bursting on Corvette prices for 15 years now....hasn't happened. Even the B-J auction 3 months after the 2008 world market crash the top cars will still selling for big money. I love the Corvette example since GM produced more 63-67 Corvettes than 928's (almost double...) Far more of those have survived thanks to aftermarket chassis and bodies. You just need a VIN to build an "all original" (wink wink) 67 big block.
When this bubble bursts will someone be able to snag "Kermit" for $15k? Will a low mileage pristine 5-speed GTS be under $30k? Will a 964 3.6 Turbo be back to the $30k range?
I was doing some poking around last night and remembered back in 2005 when a pair of 512BB Ferrari's sold at B-J for under $50k each. When this bubble bursts I fully expect to see pristine Testarossas for the price of a loaded Boxster.
Did these market spikes caused some very "run of the mill" cars go for stupid money? Absolutely, like any market you get people making stupid decisions (late 90's tech boom anyone......). That doesn't mean the "blue chips" are also worthless.
This "bubble bursting" needs some clarification from those who keep stating it's going to happen.
The problem with talking about a bubble is the high dollar cars that deserve the coin will probably stay moth-balled and hidden away. The cars bought poorly will flood the market, their values will tank and everyone will go: "SEE...IT WAS A BUBBLE!!!"
IMO it's just a market correction until I see the high dollar cars going for "regular people" money again. Threads flew open all over the internet claiming the bubble was bursting when a few of Seinfelds cars failed to sell or reach market speculation. These posts failed to mention his cars that set new records and the overall success of that auction.
Does this mean a car that was $10k a few years ago selling for $100k today will be back to $10k? Or will it "settle" to $75k or $50k?
Will that $30 million Ferrari 250 GTO only be worth $15 million?
I've been hearing about the bubble bursting on Corvette prices for 15 years now....hasn't happened. Even the B-J auction 3 months after the 2008 world market crash the top cars will still selling for big money. I love the Corvette example since GM produced more 63-67 Corvettes than 928's (almost double...) Far more of those have survived thanks to aftermarket chassis and bodies. You just need a VIN to build an "all original" (wink wink) 67 big block.
When this bubble bursts will someone be able to snag "Kermit" for $15k? Will a low mileage pristine 5-speed GTS be under $30k? Will a 964 3.6 Turbo be back to the $30k range?
I was doing some poking around last night and remembered back in 2005 when a pair of 512BB Ferrari's sold at B-J for under $50k each. When this bubble bursts I fully expect to see pristine Testarossas for the price of a loaded Boxster.
Did these market spikes caused some very "run of the mill" cars go for stupid money? Absolutely, like any market you get people making stupid decisions (late 90's tech boom anyone......). That doesn't mean the "blue chips" are also worthless.
This "bubble bursting" needs some clarification from those who keep stating it's going to happen.
The problem with talking about a bubble is the high dollar cars that deserve the coin will probably stay moth-balled and hidden away. The cars bought poorly will flood the market, their values will tank and everyone will go: "SEE...IT WAS A BUBBLE!!!"
IMO it's just a market correction until I see the high dollar cars going for "regular people" money again. Threads flew open all over the internet claiming the bubble was bursting when a few of Seinfelds cars failed to sell or reach market speculation. These posts failed to mention his cars that set new records and the overall success of that auction.
04-28-2016, 11:45 AM
#47
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I wouldn't expect return back to 2005 or anything like that. But price change has been too fast in recent years to be described as anything normal. Back in late eighties and early nineties when last major bubble burst in collector car market people were paying $100-200K extra under the table for Testarossas etc. Currently low miles Cayman GT4 etc. are more expensive used than they were new. There are lots of similarities to what happened 35 years ago and whats going on now. Please tell when below percentage gains were normal and not a bubble. Same kind of numbers can be seen to so many different cars that current situation isn't healthy.
04-28-2016, 12:17 PM
#48
Rennlist Member
04-21-2017, 04:17 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
1 year later - Has anything changed?
I really like this older thread, and it's interesting to see the discussion that evolved here. Now that it's been a year, are there any thoughts on the market or collectability forecast? How do you feel about what was predicted in this thread?
Personally, when I hopped back into a 928 (after a 10+ year absence), I was drawn to a car very similar to this one; '78 Euro 5-speed, funky color. I know all the years have their admirers, but I think there's something more "pure" about the OBs.
Yes, there are still a lot of $4k "rats" out there, and we all know that it takes a boat-load of money to bring a neglected car back to either a nice clean driver or a show level car. But it seems that there are more & more people willing to do that with a 928, and I think the '78-79 cars are starting to attract the right attention.
Of course, it may take many more years before we see serious appreciation (I paid approx. the same money 18 years ago for an '82, as I did for an '85 about 10 years ago, as I did for my '78 last week... all fairly comparable condition)... and I know we'll never look at a 928 with the same collectability eye as we look at a 930. But I feel things really have moved, and will continue to do so.
... I wonder what ever happened to this green '78
Personally, when I hopped back into a 928 (after a 10+ year absence), I was drawn to a car very similar to this one; '78 Euro 5-speed, funky color. I know all the years have their admirers, but I think there's something more "pure" about the OBs.
Yes, there are still a lot of $4k "rats" out there, and we all know that it takes a boat-load of money to bring a neglected car back to either a nice clean driver or a show level car. But it seems that there are more & more people willing to do that with a 928, and I think the '78-79 cars are starting to attract the right attention.
Of course, it may take many more years before we see serious appreciation (I paid approx. the same money 18 years ago for an '82, as I did for an '85 about 10 years ago, as I did for my '78 last week... all fairly comparable condition)... and I know we'll never look at a 928 with the same collectability eye as we look at a 930. But I feel things really have moved, and will continue to do so.
... I wonder what ever happened to this green '78
04-21-2017, 04:37 PM
#50
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I really like this older thread, and it's interesting to see the discussion that evolved here. Now that it's been a year, are there any thoughts on the market or collectability forecast? How do you feel about what was predicted in this thread?
Personally, when I hopped back into a 928 (after a 10+ year absence), I was drawn to a car very similar to this one; '78 Euro 5-speed, funky color. I know all the years have their admirers, but I think there's something more "pure" about the OBs.
Yes, there are still a lot of $4k "rats" out there, and we all know that it takes a boat-load of money to bring a neglected car back to either a nice clean driver or a show level car. But it seems that there are more & more people willing to do that with a 928, and I think the '78-79 cars are starting to attract the right attention.
Of course, it may take many more years before we see serious appreciation (I paid approx. the same money 18 years ago for an '82, as I did for an '85 about 10 years ago, as I did for my '78 last week... all fairly comparable condition)... and I know we'll never look at a 928 with the same collectability eye as we look at a 930. But I feel things really have moved, and will continue to do so.
... I wonder what ever happened to this green '78
Personally, when I hopped back into a 928 (after a 10+ year absence), I was drawn to a car very similar to this one; '78 Euro 5-speed, funky color. I know all the years have their admirers, but I think there's something more "pure" about the OBs.
Yes, there are still a lot of $4k "rats" out there, and we all know that it takes a boat-load of money to bring a neglected car back to either a nice clean driver or a show level car. But it seems that there are more & more people willing to do that with a 928, and I think the '78-79 cars are starting to attract the right attention.
Of course, it may take many more years before we see serious appreciation (I paid approx. the same money 18 years ago for an '82, as I did for an '85 about 10 years ago, as I did for my '78 last week... all fairly comparable condition)... and I know we'll never look at a 928 with the same collectability eye as we look at a 930. But I feel things really have moved, and will continue to do so.
... I wonder what ever happened to this green '78
04-21-2017, 05:23 PM
#52
Burning Brakes
04-23-2017, 10:25 AM
#53
Rennlist Member
What a great discussion, sorry I missed it when it was new. I have been wanting to comment on the profound differences between 928 owners for a long time (I don't use the term community because other than a common interest/love/affection for 928s there is little in common among us).
The differences are evident in this thread; from those that are ready, willing and able to spend (what I consider) huge amounts of money to approach 928 perfection to those of us who are happy to spend tens or even hundreds of dollars to have a running, driving 928 that won't scare the neighbours kids if they get closer than 20 feet and start looking at the details.
I, like medipedicman, consider myself a bottom feeder, but not in the sense that GB uses the term (a flipper who is just in it to turn a short term profit). I was attracted by a great car that I could reasonably afford... which is the real bottom of the 928 range, what some others would consider parts cars.
I have never sold a car for more than I paid for it (although I almost broke even on a very ratty Miata that I loved dearly). I managed to lose money on a Ford Contour in good shape that was GIVEN to me!
So I approached buying a 928 with the idea that the worst I could do was loose my initial investment and the value of the parts I put into it (and all the labour and skinned knuckles etc.). On the plus side I would get to drive a 928 and have it sit in my driveway (and raise the perceived value of my house) when I wasn't driving it. With this in mind I plopped down a part of my meager retirement savings, with the encouragement of my girlfriend who reminded me that "you can't take it your money with you when you die", and bought my 928 project.
So, low 928 prices mean I can own one. I don't count on making money on mine... ever. If I get my initial investment back I will be happy. Initial investment plus parts costs and I'll be ecstatic. I won't even consider how I would feel if I got that plus $1 an hour for my labour!
Meanwhile I drive mine, alternately with my 924S (one in the garage, one on the road), enjoy the experience including the heads that turn and think about all the things I still have to do to make it a bit better.
Life's too short to waste one's time counting unhatched chickens... I've got things to do in the garage and places to go in my 928/924S!
The differences are evident in this thread; from those that are ready, willing and able to spend (what I consider) huge amounts of money to approach 928 perfection to those of us who are happy to spend tens or even hundreds of dollars to have a running, driving 928 that won't scare the neighbours kids if they get closer than 20 feet and start looking at the details.
I, like medipedicman, consider myself a bottom feeder, but not in the sense that GB uses the term (a flipper who is just in it to turn a short term profit). I was attracted by a great car that I could reasonably afford... which is the real bottom of the 928 range, what some others would consider parts cars.
I have never sold a car for more than I paid for it (although I almost broke even on a very ratty Miata that I loved dearly). I managed to lose money on a Ford Contour in good shape that was GIVEN to me!
So I approached buying a 928 with the idea that the worst I could do was loose my initial investment and the value of the parts I put into it (and all the labour and skinned knuckles etc.). On the plus side I would get to drive a 928 and have it sit in my driveway (and raise the perceived value of my house) when I wasn't driving it. With this in mind I plopped down a part of my meager retirement savings, with the encouragement of my girlfriend who reminded me that "you can't take it your money with you when you die", and bought my 928 project.
So, low 928 prices mean I can own one. I don't count on making money on mine... ever. If I get my initial investment back I will be happy. Initial investment plus parts costs and I'll be ecstatic. I won't even consider how I would feel if I got that plus $1 an hour for my labour!
Meanwhile I drive mine, alternately with my 924S (one in the garage, one on the road), enjoy the experience including the heads that turn and think about all the things I still have to do to make it a bit better.
Life's too short to waste one's time counting unhatched chickens... I've got things to do in the garage and places to go in my 928/924S!