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and YES, it did gain a solid 40hp from 4500rpm up to 6500rpm . exactly what is needed and desired. AND, it wasnt even optimal according to you !
there is the proof if anyone needs it! because it wasnt optimal an and a custom built intake, im sure most any production current intake might do the same for the 928.... there is a good argument as to why too. yet, people think i need meds to think that is possible. wake up call. . its more than posible, its probable. its funny, the 928 community lives in a bottle . you think that im the first one to think of this? most all custom intakes blow the stock stuff out fot he water and give this type of gains. sure, we might mess up around town, torque, but for full out racing HP and gains, its all there. just has to be made. and im happy you are making them now Greg.. I just wish we could come to an agreement and put the argumentivite, challenging past behind, and put one of these on my car!!
Originally Posted by GregBBRD
This is exactly why I say that I will be testing my new intake on a stock engine, when it is done....I actually have no idea what gains are going to be possible on a stone stock engine....certainly not 100hp or even 50hp!
This would be a great time for Jim Corenman or Rob Edwards to post the dyno results from my prototype intake bolted onto Jim's 5.0 GT engine, with a set of modified Colin cams and a set of Devek headers....just to give everyone a refresher of what that change did.
Yes, the runners were too big, for this engine.
Yes, the plenum was very crude and there were airflow issues at higher rpm.
However, I think this dyno chart shows the potential and that is the reason I have continued the process of making this intake system.
so
yes, i assume that headers and a GT cam is a minimum starting point as well.. so, if i was fudging a little, i admit it, because this is where the numbers were coming from in my mind. ........
im sure the intake alone can do this as welll, but you would need the headers and cam to really take advantage of it.
I never back pedaled... re-read my posts. ive always said, 100hp for the big motor with all the goodies and 50hp for a stock S4 . actually, im assuming that there are headers and a GT or 85 cam on it too. sorry for that assumption. .............
at is also the reason for my enthusiasm
Mark things like the above "assumption" is part of what makes trying to have any meaningful dialogue with you virtually impossible. Aside from the aggressive, condescending, and demeaning attitude. You constantly shift your position as it suits you. Redefine the "theory" as need be. And post conclusions or opinions as if they are FACT.
What is clear is that you are so busy formulating your next argument that you really do not read or comprehend much of anything anyone else has to say......Like Greg Brown who posts that it is highly unlikely to see 50 HP on a stock engine....so suddenly that stock engine now has at least GT cams and headers and exhaust.
That is what made your very first post so incredibly misleading.
I really look forward to the improvements that are possible just think it best to have realistic expectations. Realistic about HP , realistic about price.
But you had better go ahead and figure out your own intake manifold since I doubt that Greg has any interest in testing his product on any engine where he can not be sure that everything else about the engine is properly maintained and tuned. That would be foolish and Greg never stuck me as the foolish type. Although I could probably make a pretty good argument that funding all the R and D for a high performance intake might qualify
Mark things like the above "assumption" is part of what makes trying to have any meaningful dialogue with you virtually impossible. Aside from the aggressive, condescending, and demeaning attitude. You constantly shift your position as it suits you. Redefine the "theory" as need be. And post conclusions or opinions as if they are FACT.
What is clear is that you are so busy formulating your next argument that you really do not read or comprehend much of anything anyone else has to say......Like Greg Brown who posts that it is highly unlikely to see 50 HP on a stock engine....so suddenly that stock engine now has at least GT cams and headers and exhaust.
That is what made your very first post so incredibly misleading.
I really look forward to the improvements that are possible just think it best to have realistic expectations. Realistic about HP , realistic about price.
But you had better go ahead and figure out your own intake manifold since I doubt that Greg has any interest in testing his product on any engine where he can not be sure that everything else about the engine is properly maintained and tuned. That would be foolish and Greg never stuck me as the foolish type. Although I could probably make a pretty good argument that funding all the R and D for a high performance intake might qualify
Ok Jim.. i think there is a little "projection " going here . (passive agreesive, dont you think jim, like i dont "tune" my car? as much as marks or joes EVER were tuned and more.)
How many of my cars blew up for broken intakes or poorly designed /manufactured, rods or oiling issues?
But ill be the bigger guy here and say TRUCE!! please for the love of god, stop trying to find such sharp edges on a round subject. yes, i do admit. i use the term " stock loosely" , but yes, Greg has proven that the intake , as rough as it is, with its "too large of runners, etc etc" on a car with headers and a cam, can make 40hp to the wheels! thats a 50hp gain!! (flywheel)
so, lets be friends again. show a little respect and restraint as well as some understanding that all i want to do is show the 928 to the world on the track in the best light.
disclaimer: i am NOT saying anyting i say is "fact". i say it with reference to other information found free on the web, on the track, and here on the list.
my theorys are just theories. so let me re-state my thoughts.
on a bone stock S4, i bet the intake gets to 300rwhp (cats , everything stock)
or 23-30hp
on a header and 85 cam or GT cam 928, gets to 360rwhp
additional 50-60hp
on a stroker with no other work besides the cam and headers. also 50-60hp
and on the stroker that has the big valve heads and more radical cam im saying 80hp . (after all, even Mark andersons and Joes 520rwhp was really only 505hp, as the 520hp was noise ossilations on the dyno plot when the dyno run was ending)
So, Jim, ill try and if you do to be a little more respectful here.
Mk
Last edited by mark kibort; 03-17-2016 at 11:57 AM.
Start a thread somewhere else when you install one of those other intakes. Waste no one's time on it here.
Bob, as far as i can tell, this entire discussion is about intakes that dont even exist yet. in fact, it was spun out of a Ferrari intake and its dyno results. I think we should leave no stone unturned until someone puts an intake on the car and calls it a product that we all can buy or make.
I dont think discussing the intake and its possible benefits are a waste of time to discuss, do you?
im thinking that the short runner might be a better solution and only hurt mid range torque...(the range that the flappy closed seems to help, which i dont think is a big sacrifice).
Mark things like the above "assumption" is part of what makes trying to have any meaningful dialogue with you virtually impossible. Aside from the aggressive, condescending, and demeaning attitude. You constantly shift your position as it suits you. Redefine the "theory" as need be. And post conclusions or opinions as if they are FACT.
What is clear is that you are so busy formulating your next argument that you really do not read or comprehend much of anything anyone else has to say......Like Greg Brown who posts that it is highly unlikely to see 50 HP on a stock engine....so suddenly that stock engine now has at least GT cams and headers and exhaust.
That is what made your very first post so incredibly misleading.
I really look forward to the improvements that are possible just think it best to have realistic expectations. Realistic about HP , realistic about price.
But you had better go ahead and figure out your own intake manifold since I doubt that Greg has any interest in testing his product on any engine where he can not be sure that everything else about the engine is properly maintained and tuned. That would be foolish and Greg never stuck me as the foolish type. Although I could probably make a pretty good argument that funding all the R and D for a high performance intake might qualify
100% correct!
The odds of Mark ever touching one of these new intakes are about the same as the Bank of England's current interest rate....somewhere between -1.5% to 0%.
The "let's all be buddy-buddy" cr@p sailed a long, long time ago...
There's probably three or four total people, on this Forum, that are in the know about what I'm up to, know where I'm headed, and know why.
And Kibort loosing races or winning races doesn't even remotely enter into these plans...
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
I remember seeing an ad for a Shelby 4 bbl. manifold claiming 90 hp gains on a GT350. Turned out this was not based on the stock hp 351 rating of 290, it was based on the stock 2 bbl. rating of 220 or some other ridiculous starting point. So maybe 25 hp over the stock Ford 4 bbl that was already on there.
Completely correct and a great reminder that one needs to look at the facts very carefully!
We are very far into this thread, but remember there was a bunch of discussion about the dyno results on the initial post being altered to emphasize the results.
"Marketing" people can twist almost anything around....say whatever they want.
Funny... nothing really matters when you really think about it.. you guys are taking this way to serous! need i remind you...this is a chat forum..
Greg, you can get over yourself too. what, some day you might design something that wont even be close to a stock mustang 5liter mustang putting out 450rwhp with only a set of headers? good for you . Glad you have your sights set so high and guess what, not one of them will ever touch the track. so.... Look out next gen prius, a Greg Brown intake equiped 928 might give you a run for your money!! whoop whoop!!!!!!
And Greg, again, you have a lot of anger to deal with and probably too many friends to have room for me... so, have fun with your "pet project" and your 4 musketeers.
Ill continue to race and do what ive been doing with a 928.
That is: Having fun on the track driving one of the cooler cars out there.
Now, here is a % rate for you... That same bank of England rate????? is the same chance you will find anyone (besides Joe and Mark) driving a 928 with your intake, on ANY track ahead of me at the checker or posting a faster lap time!
Originally Posted by GregBBRD
100% correct!
The odds of Mark ever touching one of these new intakes are about the same as the Bank of England's current interest rate....somewhere between -1.5% to 0%.
The "let's all be buddy-buddy" cr@p sailed a long, long time ago...
There's probably three or four total people, on this Forum, that are in the know about what I'm up to, know where I'm headed, and know why.
And Kibort loosing races or winning races doesn't even remotely affect me.
Completely correct and a great reminder that one needs to look at the facts very carefully!
We are very far into this thread, but remember there was a bunch of discussion about the dyno results on the initial post being altered to emphasize the results.
"Marketing" people can twist almost anything around....say whatever they want.
Greg, you still dont understand how a dyno even works. so please dont try to explain the "results" of any dyno. as far as the dyno results.. there was nothing done to them.. if scaling throws you off, you are in the wrong business! truely! the dyno results were what they are . results and they made perfect sense
Originally Posted by James Bailey
Sorry Mark but respect is something one earns not demands or negotiates.... and no I have no aggression or anger toward you but perhaps some pity.
I didnt demand anything from you Jim. I just said, lets try and be more respectful. there is a difference .. a big differnce, but by your response. you might not get it and thats ok. Please dont pity me Jim.... I have SO many things to be thankful for.. probably one of the luckiest guys in the world by any measure and i appreciate everyting i have. your put downs are very telling Jim. Its you that i should have pity for. I sorry you dont want to drop your guns and get above the petty arguing. it takes two to Tango Jim, so say the word and im back on board. for me, this is just discussions and information which i really like to engage in.
I know Carl is busy but does he have any time to help make an intake here that mirrors what he has done, but maybe has a underneath mounting of the TB, MAF and the air filter box (or something like the greg brown inline air filters?)
the fact that he has made the intake manifolds to fit the S4 heads is a HUGE step in mounting something to them. 8 flexible adapters and almost anything can be attached to it.
03-16-2016, 07:30 PM
