Gain 100HP with an intake manifold change?? - Cross post from Ferrari Chat
#571
Rennlist Member
Nope, Mark all you KNOW is it looks similar but is made of a different metal....I mean given that you did not even know the size of the throttle body on an S-4 you clearly do not know what you are looking at or talking about...not that there is anything wrong with that. The runs at Nardo were much faster than any "stock" S-4 has ever been capable of and you of all people subscribe to the laws of physics They averaged 179 MPH....
So speaking of the Salsbury:
I'm not going to talk about my vivid dreams, other than to say that they are a LOT more interesting than that..
But I really don't get the obsession with the AM intake. That's a 4.3L motor, right? Which, after tuning, made what? 330 hp? (here and here). That's the problem when you are only making 250 ft-lbs of torque. RPM can only multiply whatever torque is available.
Is that your goal, Mark, 330 hp? Heck, any mildly tuned GT can beat that with a stock intake... Rob's 6.5L is good for ~400 rwhp with a stock intake. We did almost that with 5.9L and an intake that looks completely stock, picture here. What makes you think that an intake optimized for ~300 hp is going to help you out?
I'm not going to talk about my vivid dreams, other than to say that they are a LOT more interesting than that..
But I really don't get the obsession with the AM intake. That's a 4.3L motor, right? Which, after tuning, made what? 330 hp? (here and here). That's the problem when you are only making 250 ft-lbs of torque. RPM can only multiply whatever torque is available.
Is that your goal, Mark, 330 hp? Heck, any mildly tuned GT can beat that with a stock intake... Rob's 6.5L is good for ~400 rwhp with a stock intake. We did almost that with 5.9L and an intake that looks completely stock, picture here. What makes you think that an intake optimized for ~300 hp is going to help you out?
im guessing that the AM intake would bolt on 30 hp to a stock S4 and 50hp to a 6.4 liter like mine.
that is a thing of beauty!
#572
Rennlist Member
I am not really supposed to divulge this as it cost me time and money, but what the heck, I never planned on getting rich by selling ITB'ed 928s...
We dyno-ed the race engine with short trumpets similar to the ones in the picture first. And it drove ****. No other way to describe it. From memory it made about 330rwhp. We tried, and I mean we really tried to make something decent out of it. We were stuck at 330-ish...
Then accidentally we knocked one of the trumpets off the ITBs and it felt underneath the car. Getting it back, meant unstrapping the car.
This forced us into attaching the BMW produced long trumpets. By then we had given up - all the fancy lightweight high CR JE Pistons, Colin's cams, 968 valves, Flowed heads, 33lb/hr injectors were in vain. We had one shot at glory....
WHAM!
60rwhp and a ton of torque
after another 2hrs - 434rwhp and shed load of torque and a proper 7000rpm screamer, which makes mince meat out of most cars...
So yes, short trumpets on our NA cars are useless...
I quite like this idea... I am in touch with somebody who will replicate this for my car, with the correct dimensions.... But it takes time - need to make the mould for the runners, then we need to figure out where to fit the filter, airbox size calculation etc
We dyno-ed the race engine with short trumpets similar to the ones in the picture first. And it drove ****. No other way to describe it. From memory it made about 330rwhp. We tried, and I mean we really tried to make something decent out of it. We were stuck at 330-ish...
Then accidentally we knocked one of the trumpets off the ITBs and it felt underneath the car. Getting it back, meant unstrapping the car.
This forced us into attaching the BMW produced long trumpets. By then we had given up - all the fancy lightweight high CR JE Pistons, Colin's cams, 968 valves, Flowed heads, 33lb/hr injectors were in vain. We had one shot at glory....
WHAM!
60rwhp and a ton of torque
after another 2hrs - 434rwhp and shed load of torque and a proper 7000rpm screamer, which makes mince meat out of most cars...
So yes, short trumpets on our NA cars are useless...
I quite like this idea... I am in touch with somebody who will replicate this for my car, with the correct dimensions.... But it takes time - need to make the mould for the runners, then we need to figure out where to fit the filter, airbox size calculation etc
#573
Rennlist Member
I am not really supposed to divulge this as it cost me time and money, but what the heck, I never planned on getting rich by selling ITB'ed 928s...
We dyno-ed the race engine with short trumpets similar to the ones in the picture first. And it drove ****. No other way to describe it. From memory it made about 330rwhp. We tried, and I mean we really tried to make something decent out of it. We were stuck at 330-ish...
Then accidentally we knocked one of the trumpets off the ITBs and it felt underneath the car. Getting it back, meant unstrapping the car.
This forced us into attaching the BMW produced long trumpets. By then we had given up - all the fancy lightweight high CR JE Pistons, Colin's cams, 968 valves, Flowed heads, 33lb/hr injectors were in vain. We had one shot at glory....
WHAM!
60rwhp and a ton of torque
after another 2hrs - 434rwhp and shed load of torque and a proper 7000rpm screamer, which makes mince meat out of most cars...
So yes, short trumpets on our NA cars are useless...
I quite like this idea... I am in touch with somebody who will replicate this for my car, with the correct dimensions.... But it takes time - need to make the mould for the runners, then we need to figure out where to fit the filter, airbox size calculation etc
We dyno-ed the race engine with short trumpets similar to the ones in the picture first. And it drove ****. No other way to describe it. From memory it made about 330rwhp. We tried, and I mean we really tried to make something decent out of it. We were stuck at 330-ish...
Then accidentally we knocked one of the trumpets off the ITBs and it felt underneath the car. Getting it back, meant unstrapping the car.
This forced us into attaching the BMW produced long trumpets. By then we had given up - all the fancy lightweight high CR JE Pistons, Colin's cams, 968 valves, Flowed heads, 33lb/hr injectors were in vain. We had one shot at glory....
WHAM!
60rwhp and a ton of torque
after another 2hrs - 434rwhp and shed load of torque and a proper 7000rpm screamer, which makes mince meat out of most cars...
So yes, short trumpets on our NA cars are useless...
I quite like this idea... I am in touch with somebody who will replicate this for my car, with the correct dimensions.... But it takes time - need to make the mould for the runners, then we need to figure out where to fit the filter, airbox size calculation etc
then, you put on the pictured intake or just a different runner attachment to it?
60 more hp and then even more with tune? wow, thats cool... also interesting how you stumbled upon it too. kind of proves the intake is EVERYTHING! (almost)
#574
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it is very well tuned for an engine having peak power at about 7500 to 8000 rpm. I think a good compromise is to tune the length of the intake duct at an rpm in the middle between peak torque and peak rpm.
Jake you have expressed your desire to have an engine with a lot of mid range torque, think you should add another three inches to the length.
Åke
#575
Rennlist Member
If you are talking about 14" from the opening of the air horn to the intake valve
it is very well tuned for an engine having peak power at about 7500 to 8000 rpm. I think a good compromise is to tune the length of the intake duct at an rpm in the middle between peak torque and peak rpm.
Jake you have expressed your desire to have an engine with a lot of mid range torque, think you should add another three inches to the length.
Åke
it is very well tuned for an engine having peak power at about 7500 to 8000 rpm. I think a good compromise is to tune the length of the intake duct at an rpm in the middle between peak torque and peak rpm.
Jake you have expressed your desire to have an engine with a lot of mid range torque, think you should add another three inches to the length.
Åke
#576
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#577
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I am not really supposed to divulge this as it cost me time and money, but what the heck, I never planned on getting rich by selling ITB'ed 928s...
We dyno-ed the race engine with short trumpets similar to the ones in the picture first. And it drove ****. No other way to describe it. From memory it made about 330rwhp. We tried, and I mean we really tried to make something decent out of it. We were stuck at 330-ish...
Then accidentally we knocked one of the trumpets off the ITBs and it felt underneath the car. Getting it back, meant unstrapping the car.
This forced us into attaching the BMW produced long trumpets. By then we had given up - all the fancy lightweight high CR JE Pistons, Colin's cams, 968 valves, Flowed heads, 33lb/hr injectors were in vain. We had one shot at glory....
WHAM!
60rwhp and a ton of torque
after another 2hrs - 434rwhp and shed load of torque and a proper 7000rpm screamer, which makes mince meat out of most cars...
So yes, short trumpets on our NA cars are useless...
We dyno-ed the race engine with short trumpets similar to the ones in the picture first. And it drove ****. No other way to describe it. From memory it made about 330rwhp. We tried, and I mean we really tried to make something decent out of it. We were stuck at 330-ish...
Then accidentally we knocked one of the trumpets off the ITBs and it felt underneath the car. Getting it back, meant unstrapping the car.
This forced us into attaching the BMW produced long trumpets. By then we had given up - all the fancy lightweight high CR JE Pistons, Colin's cams, 968 valves, Flowed heads, 33lb/hr injectors were in vain. We had one shot at glory....
WHAM!
60rwhp and a ton of torque
after another 2hrs - 434rwhp and shed load of torque and a proper 7000rpm screamer, which makes mince meat out of most cars...
So yes, short trumpets on our NA cars are useless...
A guy over here, think he has tried to contact you, has got himself a set of BMW M5 V8 ITBs. I suppose he wants my help installing the ITBs as well as porting of the heads. Will see what we can come up with.
Åke
#579
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Åke
https://vimeo.com/6460467
#581
Official Bay Area Patriot
Fuse 24 Assassin
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Fuse 24 Assassin
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Remind me to take both Jim and Mark to a bar and pay for their beer tabs just so I can see where the conversation goes. Oh and let's throw IMO in there just so they have a target with their empty beer bottles.
#582
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Came across an interesting data point. If you text mine the archives for the number of times MK has said 'you missed my point', Guess how many separate instances?
145. Needs to work on his point, clearly.
145. Needs to work on his point, clearly.
#584
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Always figured you couldn't count to one, without consulting the Internet.
Because there's only one wrong detail in all of my statements:
I didn't think about the fact that making them that way on my lathe made them very slightly eliptical....I just made them and used them.
Guess I should have just read the Internet and not actually have done it, like you do.
Oh wait....then I wouldn't know that a bigger butterfly made no more horsepower on a stock manifold...which was the answer to the original question.
Because there's only one wrong detail in all of my statements:
I didn't think about the fact that making them that way on my lathe made them very slightly eliptical....I just made them and used them.
Guess I should have just read the Internet and not actually have done it, like you do.
Oh wait....then I wouldn't know that a bigger butterfly made no more horsepower on a stock manifold...which was the answer to the original question.
If you are talking about 14" from the opening of the air horn to the intake valve
it is very well tuned for an engine having peak power at about 7500 to 8000 rpm. I think a good compromise is to tune the length of the intake duct at an rpm in the middle between peak torque and peak rpm.
Jake you have expressed your desire to have an engine with a lot of mid range torque, think you should add another three inches to the length.
Åke
it is very well tuned for an engine having peak power at about 7500 to 8000 rpm. I think a good compromise is to tune the length of the intake duct at an rpm in the middle between peak torque and peak rpm.
Jake you have expressed your desire to have an engine with a lot of mid range torque, think you should add another three inches to the length.
Åke
Be careful. He will catch them fill them with Slivovitz and toss them back with a burning rag in the opening.... lol