Notices
928 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

New '86.5 owner saying Hello Rennlist!

 
Old 01-03-2016, 10:24 AM
  #31  
Bigalrut
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SE Georgia
Posts: 38
Default

Trust me...I'm struggling with this!
Bigalrut is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 10:32 AM
  #32  
WallyP

Rennlist Member
Rennlist Site Sponsor

 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Acworth, GA
Posts: 6,469
Default

It's sad to see this much abuse by incompetent idiots. I agree that the biggest problem will be finding and repairing all of the bungled repairs/modifications. Too much...

First decision - do you really want a pretty nice 928 daily driver? If the answer is yes, do you want an early body style or a late body style? If the answer is early, then the decision becomes whether this car has enough parts to make it more worth keeping as support for you next 928. Some things, like the leather dash, will be a good upgrade for any year, if it is in good shape.

If you do decide to part it out, spend a little extra time taking off all of the fasteners and little bits, and storing them. It's amazing how often having a supply of 928 fasteners and small parts will save you time and money on the next car. Of course, if you have the space, and no problem with the authorities (in or out of the family!), it is more convenient to save all of the parts on the parts car...
WallyP is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 10:41 AM
  #33  
linderpat
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
linderpat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 10,227
Default

Originally Posted by Bigalrut View Post
Trust me...I'm struggling with this!
Then think about this Al - you indicated the electrics are looking bad - that is the real deal killer. The body will never be right, but you can probably make a driver out of it (altho it will never have a decent resale value and will have the typical issues of an unstraight platform). The electrics are what will kill this project. The 86 has a complex brain system for the injectors, ignition and virtually all of the systems. Sorting that out even for an experienced electrical guy can be an expensive nightmare. Further, from the first pictures that you posted, this car looks like it was a flood car. That means that these critical electronic components are likely shot or will be. The corrosion is inside of the various boxes.
While it is noble to consider saving it, it just doesn't make sense. This isn't a Ferrari 265 or some other rare and extraordinary car. Yes the values are going up, and will continue to do so, but this car, with these issues, will not likely ever enjoy that bump. Thus, get a better platform and make a great and fun driver out of it. Use this one so that others may live!
linderpat is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 10:43 AM
  #34  
Cosmo Kramer
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Cosmo Kramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: On boost
Posts: 4,254
Default

For the amount of work needed to save it, I would get it running and verify that the engine and transmission are ok. Then I would look for another 85-86.5 that has had a powertrain failure of some sort and do a 5 speed conversion and add big brakes (if needed).
Cosmo Kramer is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 11:07 AM
  #35  
S4ordie
Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Rennlist Member
 
S4ordie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ, USA, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posts: 7,620
Default

Al, some of the most knowledgeable people on these cars have clearly stated this car is a parts donor only. As someone who went crazy on a resto project I can tell you if you are a person that likes things done right you are $50k from having a $10k car. I say $10k because you can't really ever get the car back to original condition.

Part out the poor tortured thing and use the experience and money as the profit of this exercise. With it you can seek out and assess a car that is worthy of your attention.

Having stated the above, these cars are like old houses. There are some that should be torn down and then there are owners who for emotional reasons will invest crazy funds, effort and time into creating a fully restored home. If you are of the latter inclination, well, this forum is the best resource in the world on these cars.

So very sad to see what has happened to this car.

Last edited by S4ordie; 01-03-2016 at 11:11 PM.
S4ordie is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 11:15 AM
  #36  
The Deputy
Super User
 
The Deputy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,177
Default

After a bit more studying, especially of the welds, me, even if I did get this car road-worthy, and I use the term loosely, I'd be afraid to ever "drive it like I stole it". One good accident at above average speeds and you could have that sun-roof delete in your pie-hole.

Al,

I'm already excited about the fact that you are interested in restoring a 928, since your picture taking abilities are top-notch. If you were ever to do a restoration it would be one I'd eagerly follow along with.

Like others have said, find out if the engine/trans are good, dismantle the car, save everything (every clip, bolt, etc...like previously mentioned) and look for another solid body with above average interior. Then you'd have yourself a much better project.

Whenever the mood strikes them, these cars will punish the average enthusiasts and eat their young, they can not be forced into submission...they most be gentle persuaded around too your way of thinking.

Brian.

P.S. When you mentioned the rub strip removal technique...it is exactly what I envisioned.
The Deputy is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 11:53 AM
  #37  
Jerry Feather
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Jerry Feather's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 2706 Skyline Drive, Grand Junction CO 81506
Posts: 4,542
Default

Al, I kind of stand by the old saying that "anything can be fixed!" The first question that comes with that is just what is it that needs to be fixed. Then the more important question is just how are you going to fix it or how are you going to have it fixed. This last one is the most important in the context of your 86.5.

You have shown a lot about what likely needs to be fixed with the car and a lot can be guessed about the rest of it, but you have said very little about how you might have any of it fixed; or more importantly who would be doing the fixing. You made references to money and "stupid money" both of which I think translate to your having someone else do the fixing. If that is the case, I think this car, except for the parting out, is a goner.

On the other hand, to the extent that you are capable of doing any or all of the fixing yourself, then you need to start analyzing the issues with that in mind. For example, if you were going to do a sunroof delete on it yourself, and it had not been done before, it is half way done for you now. All it needs it to clean up all the left over sheet metal that should have been removed when it was done, and that is not a "stupid money" project, but one that you can do with a couple of fairly cheap Harbor Freight tools and a bit of time. If it were me I would then strip the paint on top and consider reworking the welds to the extent necessary to require only very little filler.

To give you better advise about what to do with this car, I think you need to tell us more about your abilities to do any or all of it yourself. You said you "did" a couple of BMWs for your kids, but you haven't said just what it was that you "did."

You ought to find and review Dean Fuller's thread about the green car he did for his son. If that kind of project is in the cards for you then I think you have the perfect starting point with this car. Only if you need to hire all or most of the work done is this car toast, in my opinion.

P.S. I think The Deputy if totally wrong about his assessment of the sunroof delete. When all of the sunroof metal is removed that should have been when it was deleted, all of the crappy welding your pictures show is going to be gone and what is left is still going to be capable of having a monster truck drive over it without collapsing it.
Jerry Feather is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 12:10 PM
  #38  
The Deputy
Super User
 
The Deputy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,177
Default

Originally Posted by The Deputy View Post
you could have that sun-roof delete in your pie-hole
...not one he might make in the future.

Brian.
The Deputy is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 03:27 PM
  #39  
Bigalrut
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SE Georgia
Posts: 38
Default

Originally Posted by Jerry Feather View Post
Al, I kind of stand by the old saying that "anything can be fixed!" The first question that comes with that is just what is it that needs to be fixed. Then the more important question is just how are you going to fix it or how are you going to have it fixed. This last one is the most important in the context of your 86.5.

You have shown a lot about what likely needs to be fixed with the car and a lot can be guessed about the rest of it, but you have said very little about how you might have any of it fixed; or more importantly who would be doing the fixing. You made references to money and "stupid money" both of which I think translate to your having someone else do the fixing. If that is the case, I think this car, except for the parting out, is a goner.

On the other hand, to the extent that you are capable of doing any or all of the fixing yourself, then you need to start analyzing the issues with that in mind. For example, if you were going to do a sunroof delete on it yourself, and it had not been done before, it is half way done for you now. All it needs it to clean up all the left over sheet metal that should have been removed when it was done, and that is not a "stupid money" project, but one that you can do with a couple of fairly cheap Harbor Freight tools and a bit of time. If it were me I would then strip the paint on top and consider reworking the welds to the extent necessary to require only very little filler.

To give you better advise about what to do with this car, I think you need to tell us more about your abilities to do any or all of it yourself. You said you "did" a couple of BMWs for your kids, but you haven't said just what it was that you "did."

You ought to find and review Dean Fuller's thread about the green car he did for his son. If that kind of project is in the cards for you then I think you have the perfect starting point with this car. Only if you need to hire all or most of the work done is this car toast, in my opinion.

P.S. I think The Deputy if totally wrong about his assessment of the sunroof delete. When all of the sunroof metal is removed that should have been when it was deleted, all of the crappy welding your pictures show is going to be gone and what is left is still going to be capable of having a monster truck drive over it without collapsing it.
Originally Posted by The Deputy View Post
...not one he might make in the future.

Brian.
Jerry-
All the experience I have, with cars, is mechanical in nature. Manuals are what I use for everything I've done to both the bimmers I own. I've removed and installed body panels, bumpers, etc. I've done rewiring, component repair, soldering, etc. I've not had experience with any body work, e.g. bondo filling, cutting off body parts, welding, etc.

That being said, I did read through Dean Fuller's thread, about a week ago, and know that I could do what he's done. I'm confident in my skill level and ability to learn new skills.

This vehicle is a bit intimidating in that I'm not sure what to do, exactly, when it comes to body work. For instance, you mention removing certain areas of sheet metal to make the sun roof delete "more correct". I'm skilled enough to cut and grind, but what to cut out is beyond me. And, once cut out, what's the proper way to ensure the exposed metal is then treated adequately to preclude future rust formation. In short, I can do just about anything given the proper tools and some information on how to do it, and practice, like welding.

Nevertheless, if the body is tweaked...then, like most have said, punt and get another. So, I've thought of pulling the engine, in order to clean up the engine bay, and taking it to the body shop for an evaluation. I don't see it as negative work, only because I've decided, that even if I keep it, I would pull the engine so that I can ensure the seals, gaskets, etc were all done properly as well as being to evaluate all hoses, wires, connectors, etc. Again, at a point where I just don't trust that anything done to this vehicle prior to my buying it was done correctly. Case in point, remember me mentioning that the back lid wasn't seating properly? Well, I determined that when the monkeys installed it, they neglected to use the backer plate (on the interior side) when securing the lid hinges to the vehicle.






There was no backer plate behind these holes through which the lid hinges are secured to the vehicle. So, as the lid was brought down, it pivoted at the point where the lid strut mounted to the vehicle and pulled the securing bolts through the securing holes pictured.




Also, I just thought of this, I sent roger Tyson some pictures of the under carriage frame rails because I was concerned as to their state. Both rails have some damage, to which Roger stated was common. However, now I'm concerned that all the misalignment issues I've noticed with the fenders and the damage to the rails may be related.

So, because I'm a perfectionist, I wouldn't be able to feel comfortable with the vehicle, after what I've found, until I've dismantled her and put her back together myself. Not opposed to that. Just need to know that the body can be put right for a reasonable amount. A reasonable amount still below what it would cost me to source another 85-86 project.

Sorry - I've rambled!
Bigalrut is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 03:39 PM
  #40  
Bigalrut
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SE Georgia
Posts: 38
Default

Originally Posted by linderpat View Post
Then think about this Al - you indicated the electrics are looking bad - that is the real deal killer. The body will never be right, but you can probably make a driver out of it (altho it will never have a decent resale value and will have the typical issues of an unstraight platform). The electrics are what will kill this project. The 86 has a complex brain system for the injectors, ignition and virtually all of the systems. Sorting that out even for an experienced electrical guy can be an expensive nightmare. Further, from the first pictures that you posted, this car looks like it was a flood car. That means that these critical electronic components are likely shot or will be. The corrosion is inside of the various boxes.
While it is noble to consider saving it, it just doesn't make sense. This isn't a Ferrari 265 or some other rare and extraordinary car. Yes the values are going up, and will continue to do so, but this car, with these issues, will not likely ever enjoy that bump. Thus, get a better platform and make a great and fun driver out of it. Use this one so that others may live!
Thanks Ed! I don't have experience with these vehicles electric systems. I have noted corrosion on components that I've come across when taking interior out, but nothing behind the dash or behind the fuse panel.
Bigalrut is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 04:06 PM
  #41  
Mrmerlin
Petie3rd
Rennlist Member

This Post Sponsored by:
Dow Corning« & DeoxIT«
 
Mrmerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 22,608
Default

well great news your well on your way to parting this car out to make way for your next project,
this is a good way to learn how to work on a 928 take one or a few apart.

I would get the engine running first, then take it out.

you only need to find a solid chassis with no drive train,
most of this car has been butchered ,
so hopefully this only goes skin deep and the drive line parts are still solid.

Goodluck on your search
Mrmerlin is online now  
Old 01-03-2016, 04:27 PM
  #42  
Bigalrut
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SE Georgia
Posts: 38
Default

Originally Posted by Mrmerlin View Post
well great news your well on your way to parting this car out to make way for your next project,
this is a good way to learn how to work on a 928 take one or a few apart.

I would get the engine running first, then take it out.

you only need to find a solid chassis with no drive train,
most of this car has been butchered ,
so hopefully this only goes skin deep and the drive line parts are still solid.

Goodluck on your search
We did install a battery the day I decided to buy her and the car did turn over. Also, the headlight came up, part way and illuminated. However, the ECU was disconnected. Why, I'm not sure. Anyway, I don't trust the electrical system without doing a thorough look, and, I imagine both ECUs need to be connected in order for the vehicle to run. I'm only going to pursue this because I know that the engine is worth more if proven good, so, this is what I've gathered from the experience on this forum.

1. Check/replace timing belt. (already sourced the Kempf tool from Roger)
2. Drain gas tank.
3. Check/replace fuel lines (I think there are four that I need to worry about)

Those steps, at a minimum. Anything I can do with the electrics without having to pull the dash?
Bigalrut is offline  
Old 01-03-2016, 04:45 PM
  #43  
Mrmerlin
Petie3rd
Rennlist Member

This Post Sponsored by:
Dow Corning« & DeoxIT«
 
Mrmerlin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Philly PA
Posts: 22,608
Default

Well I would not go that far with repairs.

Here is what I would suggest to get the most bang for your dollar.

Remove the passenger and driver side belt covers,
put the engine to TDC,
verify that the cams and crank are both at TDC .
Check the belt tension, reset if necessary.

Slowly turn the engine with your 27MM socket,
inspect the belt for any loose teeth,
if this checks good and the belt isnt all dry rotted.
install the covers.

Dont touch the fuel lines, unless you find a gross leak,
your only objective is to run the engine,

Once it runs up to temp,
then you might see if some of the other systems work,
once this is done then you will know more and how to proceed.

NOTE both computers need to be connected, deoxit the connectors ,
also disconnect the green wires at the computer connector as seen in the connector thats not connected to the computer.

NOTE usual running issues are caused by a failed 53 relay,
so get 4 new 53 relays replace them one at a time.
fuel pump, EZF, and LH, ignition or starter.

Posting pictures as your doing will let others see the extent of the damaged areas of your machine.
CE panel pictures are also valuable.

After you have gotten the running info you will know where the parts can best be used.

It appears that the front struts have aftermarket springs and struts from 928 INTL,these could be swapped into a new chassis .

Last edited by Mrmerlin; 01-04-2016 at 09:43 PM.
Mrmerlin is online now  
Old 01-03-2016, 04:52 PM
  #44  
Hilton
Super User
 
Hilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ɹəpun uʍop 'ʎəupʎs
Posts: 6,098
Default

Originally Posted by Crumpler View Post
Ok, I'm going to go in the other direction then my esteemed colleagues.

Al you got the shop and you got the skill...
Its important to remember there is no such thing as an unfixable car. As long as you've got the money to dump into it. This one is north of $15k from being a $5k car.
Hilton is online now  
Old 01-03-2016, 04:57 PM
  #45  
Jerry Feather
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Jerry Feather's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: 2706 Skyline Drive, Grand Junction CO 81506
Posts: 4,542
Default

Al, I actually think that the great news in this thread is the likelihood that you will continue to resurrect this 86.5 rather than part it out. At this point the only reservation I have about that is possibly the mileage on the car. If it doesn't have 100K miles or not very much over that I think it is worth saving. Very much higher mileage is one thing that you cannot almost ever cure in whatever you do to the car.

As to the roof, what the monkeys did to it was simply take the sunroof panel and weld it into place in the opening. They didn't even remove the extraneous metal brackets and edges from it before the did so. Then they simply placed some extra welds in places that were already welded by the factory. Those welds did nothing to help or hurt the roof structure. All of the double metal panel under the top skin of the roof needs to come out and that includes at least out to the double material that basically surrounds the top. Much of that will stay there, but some of it can also be removed depending on just what you decide to do about a headliner. If you are able to obtain an original non sunroof headliner it will tell you just how much of the original surrounding metal will need to stay. Otherwise you are going to be doing some design work in deciding just how you want to do the headliner. If you are not in a big hurry, when I get to my radical custom 928 project that I recently started a thread about I will be showing you how much of the inside stuff needs to be removed and how much I will be leaving and how I will be doing the headliner.

As the the "frame rails" those are not frame rails. I think what you are looking at and sending pictures of for advise are the two hat section members that are there to simply stiffen the floor under the driver and passenger. There is actually a frame structure built into the unibody structure of the 928, but those two hat sections are not part of it.

Starting at the front of your car if you look just below the place where the front bumper bar was mounted on the shock mounts you will see a bulbous kind of boob like structure. That is the front point of the frame rail on each side. If you follow that to the rear along the lower part of the inside of the front wheel wells, about where they reach the firewall or just aft of that, you will notice that there is a structure that makes a right angle and goes straight out to just under the front end of the rocker panels. That too is the frame making kind of a crossmember. From there the frame goes to the rear just under the doors, and the inner and outer part of the door sills and/or rocker panels is in fact the long part of the frame. There is a very stiff heavy frame member sandwiched inside the rocker panels. The two hat sections that are usually bent up from being jacked up as if they are the frame are not the frame. From there you can follow the frame rails into the rear wheel wells and out the back of the car. There are a few things that can be done to straighten out the hat section stiffeners, but that is another relative minor item.

The best advise here so far is to get the car running and even if that involves a big learning curve in electronics and whatever other mechanical prowess you find needed, that will get you started toward resurrecting this 928. Start ignoring the advise to part this car out. Only when you reach some point in the resurrection that you cannot surmount and don't want to pay to have done should you consider cutting and running. So far I do not see any major obstacle in your path.

The major areas of your project are the following: Mechanical, electrical, body work, paint, and interior. You sound like you can easily be on top of the mechanical and electrical. The body work is so far very minor, including possibly some pulling on the front to cure half of the 5/16 inch difference in a measurement, and the roof is easily done by you with some cutting tools and grinding to clean it up. Further as to the roof, it is fairly common knowledge that by removing the sunroof you can gain 1 1/2 to 2 inches of head room. Take a look at your roof and see what all can be removed to gain that. Then take it out. Then clean up the inside surface of the sunroof panel that the monkeys welded in there. If that seems like too much work, as to the panel, just cut it out and find another one that you can clean up and weld back in. Actually I think this is the only welding that you are going to find yourself having to do on your car, and probably not even that.

Replace the front fenders. Figure out why the headlights don't line up and fix that.

I don't quite understand about the hatch and how or why it does not fit. You sound like you are on the track of that, but if you want further advise about it let me know and post some more pictures. I can't imaging anything major having been done to the car to make the hatch fit very poorly.

As to the interior, it may be your best bet to simply find another complete interior and put it in. I would think you might find a pretty good interior for $1500 to $2500. On the other hand I think you could get yours redone for about $5000, more or less. As to the paint, do it yourself like Dean did.
Jerry Feather is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: New '86.5 owner saying Hello Rennlist!


Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: