Rhetro

Hello.


It looks like I have a change of plan.
I like the old stuff. Call it nostalgia or whatever. My original choice was a late 80s 911 Carrera. However, it's been cost prohibitive not to mention difficult in finding what I want. I've been advised to look for something newer for my FIRST 911 Porsche. But....


I can't help looking at the 928s. As a kid, I was impressed with these, too. Before I continue the 911 search, I just have to ask: How problematic are these machines? I know they're a little bit more of a luxurious ride than the 911, and if in good shape could they potentially be a daily driver?


The prices on some of these are unbelievably LOW! It's just a thought. I'm still browsing around.
How often are you guys under the hood working on them, or taking them to the garage? Are there certain years to stay away from etc?


Thanks


a

MainePorsche

I don't think these cars are problematic at all.
In 28 years the only failures were the original radiator just started leaking from an end tank, auto trans went 2 years ago, coolant fan amplifier (common failure item) went last year, central door locking controller failed last year, and LH computer failed and was replaced by the PO about 10 years ago.
I do all the work as a pastime so these, and little wear item bits along with scheduled maintenance has never been an unexpected issue. The car is electrically complicated, but assistance from the Forum has made it less so.

dr bob

Which one?


The particular car you choose will directly affect the "problematic" factor. There are very cheap cars on the market, and there's a very good reason. Like any car, they get parked and ultimately sold when the looming repair costs exceed what the owner perceives as the 'value' of the car. There's a saying here that "it's ten thousand dollars away from being a five thousand dollar car", and so long as you can deal with that OK it's OK to proceed.

Read the new visitors sticky at the top, with an eye towards all the advice shared about buying one. Decide what your budget and expectations are in advance. Keeping in mind of course that any car that isn't reasonably current on maintenance will need a minimum of $5k in rubber and related parts to make it a safe driver. Assumes that you will supply the labor component of the parts costs.

With all that in mind, you'll find that the best deal on a 928 is one that is completely current. Turns out the the cheapest one to own is the most costly to buy. There are folks here who hunt down and bag the elusive example that has a short list of to-do items yet sells for a lower price. Again, managing expectations is a big part of this process, since you can't get too mad when your bargain buy shares hidden secrets after purchase.

So welcome to the group, and feel free to enlist the aid of list members as you identify and evaluate candidate cars.

ThetaTau87

I was in the same boat as you 3-4 years ago when I was looking to buy my first Porsche. Originally I wanted an 87-89 911 Carrera 3.2, but I only had $15k to maybe $20k to spend. At that time my budget was at the very bottom of the Carrera 3.2 market (today you can't touch any decent 3.2 for under $30k.) I started looking closer at the 928 and realized I could buy much more car (more power, comfort, practicality, etc.) and in MUCH better condition well within my budget in a 928.

I bought my '89 GT in June 2013 for $12k and could not be happier. It is an amazing car. I got an incredible deal on my GT, but a clean well maintained 5-speed S4 can easily be had for $15k or less, an auto for much less. I've had a couple of big issues that aren't representative of most 928s, but I still consider the car to be a reliable summer DD, and put at least 5k miles a year on it.

The first issue was a leaking oil cooler in the radiator end tank. A good used radiator can be bought from 928 Int. for $500 and takes a couple of hours to install. The other major issue I had as loss of compression in all cylinders during a day at the track. I'm not sure if the issue was caused by track day stress or overfilling the oil level or both, but the end result was stuck rings on all 8 cylinders and a rebuilt or replacement engine was required. I chose to buy a good used engine (~$3500 is the going rate) so I could get the car back on the road quickly. I'll rebuild the original this winter and put it back in and sell the replacement engine next spring.

Other than those two atypical major issues in 2 years I've replaced a tie rod end, a leaking heater valve and the front wheel bearings need replacing on one side. These are more typical problems most 928 owners encounter. Even with the major repairs I'm still only into my car for about $17k and still consider it a bargain. I do all my own wrenching and have a good local group of 928 owners, so that saved me a bundle with parts they had available and help diagnosing and fixing the problems without paying a mechanic. Plan on having about $5k at the ready in case something major happens, but even with that generous slush fund you'll still be well under Carrera 3.2 money to buy a great 928. A 911 won't be any cheaper to maintain or repair or more reliable, and unless you want a 996 it will be 2-3x more expensive to purchase.

If you're reasonably skilled with a wrench and willing to take the time to learn the car's systems with online research you'll be surprised how reliable and easy to work on a car with such a poor reputation for repair nightmares can be. Parts are a bit steep in comparison to most makes, but they also tend to last much longer than less expensive makes so repeat repairs are infrequent. If you buy good quality parts when you make repairs they will last for many years. This is true for all Porsche models, not just 928s.

My best advice would be to do as much research as you can online. Then go seek out local 928 owners, drive their cars, pick their brains, find out who's selling what. The more 928s you drive the better you'll be able to pick out the well maintained from the neglected and learn what normal, good and bad looks and feels like BEFORE you buy. Using personal and online contacts find a good well maintained car with as much service history as possible. Then enjoy it as much as possible by driving it as much as you can!

curt_928

These cars are more complex than the 911 it was designed to replace. I have found mine to be generally reliable in the 18 years that I've owned it.. but you'll need a mechanic that is affordable who knows the car or fix it yourself. A lot of the members here fix their own cars and have pretty extensive semi-pro home garages. If you want a 9/10 car its going to be harder to maintain and more expensive than a 6/10 car. They're older and complex machines. Personally if you really want a 911 of a given vintage, get that. You're going to have problems with any 20+ year old car and really liking the car helps sooo much. I personally think a 993 or 996 would make a very nice first 911.

Daniel5691

If you love the 928, buy one.
No, wait, more than that, buy one after lurking here for about 3-4 weeks, and try your best to buy one from one of the guys here on the forum. They know what they are talking about, and they are very helpful and forgiving of n00bs (like me).
I lurked here a few weeks, bought my 928 from a really nice guy on Rennlist, and couldn't be happier 1 year in....
Good luck,

Dan

SMTCapeCod

That's one of the dimensions of the community here.

If its a car you want, it isn't usually too untoward to keep it up to par and as operational as you want.

If its an also-ran, then expect to get disenfranchised, expensively.


Edit: Tell you what, look up the recent "Falling in love with my car again" thread, from another "want a 911 but..." person. Then maybe contact him directly to compare notes. It'll cost you quite a premium to locate a car with that well documented of a baseline & standard of care though.

polecat702

The 928 is like no other car out there, it's unique! I'm on my 2nd one, the 1st was totaled, and my wife, whom I've never heard a positive word about any of my collector cars said: " I really liked that car, and you'd better get another one, and it has to be black just like the 87!" So I bought another one, an 89 S4.

Bottom line, the car is fantastic, but the people here are even better! I'll always own a 928, because of the other owners!

Crumpler

That is fair question I guess. My 911 buddies had the same perception of the 928: really great car but too problematic.
But honestly, they have never worked on one, that's just the propaganda I think they got fed in air-cooler school.
By proxy, I don't have a yardstick to compare the 928 to. It's the only 30 year old Pcar I have restored.
It's tight, I wish my hands were smaller, lol. But I think it's pretty forgiving as long as you do your homework.
It really is an amazing car.
Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Rhetro

Thank you folks!
What I've enjoyed more than anything is the outreach of help and encouragement that is found at this website; whether 911 or 928 -and probably everything in between; I find that while I'm a noob, I'm not alone. People here have been in my shoes and are directing the path. I can say this with all confidence: If it wasn't for this forum, I would have made a serious financial mistake at this point.


Not to stray to far from the topic...It seems that the majority of you all do your own maintenance -or a good portion of it. Unfortunately, I don't have the tools nor the facility to turn it into a hobby -which could be a great learning experience. So whatever I decide, I know that I'm going to have asked all the right questions, and have accepted what can be broken and what can't.


I remember seeing this movie, Looker, as a little kid and seeing this metallic brown 928 that unfortunately ends up in a water fountain. But I couldn't take my eyes off of it. "...look mom, that car looks like a spaceship" It has this timeless appeal to it. To this day it's as unique as it was when I first saw it.


I will continue to research. Thanks again!

The Deputy

I was thinking the same thing earlier when about too post...

Don't really have any comparisons, the only thirty some year old cars owned now...are both 928's. Granted, I'm not finding anything extremely difficult on these two, 78 -84. However, they're quite a bit different from any muscle cars owned years ago, mostly camaro, firebirds and vettes. But, that is what drew me to them. Didn't want to go down a road I'd already traveled. And, I'd always been drawn to these beauties.

I'm relatively new to these cars, bought my 84 in Nov. 2014. Since then I've put about a grand into it, mechanical stuff-wise and another grand in cosmetic improvements. All mechanical repairs were simple enough and whatever information a person could ever want is here.

The 78 was added a month ago, but could be drive daily if needed. But, there are other plans in store for this one.

Good luck, with your decision.

Brian.

MainePorsche

Best Wishes on whatever you decide.
Post up you location so you can be directed to a Forum 928 guy for your service.

harveyf

Good discussion. I'll add that using the car as a daily driver is actually a good thing. Cars just generally do better if they are driven on a regular basis. You're not going to wear it out! They are very well constructed cars.

You might be surprised at what forms of preventive maintenance that you can do even from a driveway. That said, if I was going to have to use a mechanic, I would identify that guy first and keep him closely involved in any pending purchase. You may find that the lack of a knowledgable mechanic nearby to where you live might be a deal breaker regarding 928 ownership.

It is too bad that 911SC prices have exploded. But you will be faced with the same set of maintenance issues regarding those cars too. Knowledgable mechancis might be a little more plentiful for those cars.

I'm sure you've been advised that the early 2000 water cooled 911's are the best value in a 911. I've also been seeing tons of early Boxsters in the $10K range.

linderpat

there's a reason for that Harvey, and it's called the M96 engine. I had a 986. An 03 "S" model. Loved it, it drove great, but the IMS issues caused me to spend an extra $2K for the IMS bearing upgrade, and then my lifters started o chatter, and I said screw it, I'm out. I do not recommend the early water cooled 911s or Boxsters, unless you are very wrench handy and know how to monitor your car closely.

harveyf

Ed, you are quite correct about the IMS issue and it is good that you bring it into the decision process.