Carbon Fibre Body Panels for our cars
08-07-2015, 11:55 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Carbon Fibre Body Panels for our cars
A friend of mine has a BMW race car, which is quite heavy - E92 M3. In an effort to make it lighter he enlisted the help of another friend who produced front and rear PUs, front wings, rear quarters, bonnet and trunk, and fully functional doors out of carbon fibre for the Bavarian pig.
Naturally this got me thinking - could he do the same for the 928? The answer was +ve, provided that I leave a car or body parts with him to take moulds off, adding that the more body parts are produced in one batch, the cheaper it would be. To give you an idea - the two doors for the E92 M3 were $1550.
Would you guys care? The M3 parts fitted as well as factory steel panels. The doors can have all electric windows/crash protection fitted back inside. Thus I am sure we can have a 928 with carbon fibre "skin" which would not look different from a factory car.
Yet again, I stand to make no financial gain except cheaper parts for my race car. Let's have a reasonable discussion on what kind of pricing would people wan to see and whether it is feasble to get the "project" off the ground.
Alex
Naturally this got me thinking - could he do the same for the 928? The answer was +ve, provided that I leave a car or body parts with him to take moulds off, adding that the more body parts are produced in one batch, the cheaper it would be. To give you an idea - the two doors for the E92 M3 were $1550.
Would you guys care? The M3 parts fitted as well as factory steel panels. The doors can have all electric windows/crash protection fitted back inside. Thus I am sure we can have a 928 with carbon fibre "skin" which would not look different from a factory car.
Yet again, I stand to make no financial gain except cheaper parts for my race car. Let's have a reasonable discussion on what kind of pricing would people wan to see and whether it is feasble to get the "project" off the ground.
Alex
08-07-2015, 12:16 PM
#2
The "straightforward" parts: Hood, front quarters, door skins, are already aluminum and surprisingly light. Although it should be possible to make a lighter version in CF, it would be challenge.
The rear quarters, roof and hatch are heavy, but harder to replace.
Don't get me wrong, I love CF, but its hard to "Add lightness" to the aluminum.
The rear quarters, roof and hatch are heavy, but harder to replace.
Don't get me wrong, I love CF, but its hard to "Add lightness" to the aluminum.
08-07-2015, 12:36 PM
#4
Instructor
The hatch would be the easiest part to replace, with the largest weight saving together with a lexan/plastic window.
The rear spoiler is also heavy, but that is already available in CF http://www.ebay.de/itm/310353204761?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
With a roof skin, you would need a full roll cage, which would have a narrower audience.
The rear spoiler is also heavy, but that is already available in CF http://www.ebay.de/itm/310353204761?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
With a roof skin, you would need a full roll cage, which would have a narrower audience.
08-07-2015, 01:05 PM
#5
I feel like many here may not have have taken as many 928s apart as Mark Anderson.
That said, I have taken a few apart myself. And you know what? I've learned quite a bit...
The hood is aluminum (aluminium for those in England) but still sort of heavy. I acquired a carbon fiber hood of approximate quality and it was clearly lighter.
I would it screw with the doors. Not light, but the doors are not the weight issue. It's the metal motor and thick glass window.
Fenders are nothing.
Rear hatch always seems so heavy. But separate the glass from it, and you have a relatively light steel hatch and a very heavy glass panel. I replaced a hatch glass with plexiglass long ago, but have no had to deal with the sun hitting it yet.
the total weight was really reduced.
There is a bunch of low hanging fruit in the glass we have, but more than that, the other low hanging fruit is in the mechanical bits. Bumper shocks. Headlight bar. Sunroof. Torque tube (not as easy). The steel body itself seems to be a heavier metal than is used today.
That said, I have taken a few apart myself. And you know what? I've learned quite a bit...
The hood is aluminum (aluminium for those in England) but still sort of heavy. I acquired a carbon fiber hood of approximate quality and it was clearly lighter.
I would it screw with the doors. Not light, but the doors are not the weight issue. It's the metal motor and thick glass window.
Fenders are nothing.
Rear hatch always seems so heavy. But separate the glass from it, and you have a relatively light steel hatch and a very heavy glass panel. I replaced a hatch glass with plexiglass long ago, but have no had to deal with the sun hitting it yet.
the total weight was really reduced. There is a bunch of low hanging fruit in the glass we have, but more than that, the other low hanging fruit is in the mechanical bits. Bumper shocks. Headlight bar. Sunroof. Torque tube (not as easy). The steel body itself seems to be a heavier metal than is used today.
08-07-2015, 01:11 PM
#6
"The hood is aluminum (aluminium for those in England) but still sort of heavy. I acquired a carbon fiber hood of approximate quality and it was clearly lighter. "
Interesting. When I first pulled off my hood, it was _much_ lighter than I expected. So much so that I almost put it into the ceiling of my garage pulling it up and having much less than anticipated resistance. Like lifting a beer mug that you think is glass but is really plastic. However, I'll take your word that the CF is significantly lighter still. The only CF hood I have "seen" is one that ended up in Mark Anderson's possession and I was under the impression that one still used the stock frame, and only had the aluminum skin replaced. No idea on the weight of that compared to stock.
Interesting. When I first pulled off my hood, it was _much_ lighter than I expected. So much so that I almost put it into the ceiling of my garage pulling it up and having much less than anticipated resistance. Like lifting a beer mug that you think is glass but is really plastic. However, I'll take your word that the CF is significantly lighter still. The only CF hood I have "seen" is one that ended up in Mark Anderson's possession and I was under the impression that one still used the stock frame, and only had the aluminum skin replaced. No idea on the weight of that compared to stock.
08-07-2015, 01:23 PM
#7
Drifting
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08-07-2015, 02:36 PM
#9
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Hoods are 18 lbs. AO and BC have CF hoods, I'm not sure they're any lighter. A CF roof panel might make sense but a sunroofless factory steel roof is only 16.5 lbs.
Stock doors are absurdly heavy- maybe 70 lbs (?) But doors don't have to be heavy- Anderson got it down to about 5, though the effect on NVH is pretty severe:
Stock doors are absurdly heavy- maybe 70 lbs (?) But doors don't have to be heavy- Anderson got it down to about 5, though the effect on NVH is pretty severe:
08-07-2015, 02:44 PM
#10
Yes I was thinking of still being safe with no cage on the stock door.
08-07-2015, 02:49 PM
#11
Just weighed the cf hood. 12 lbs.
The oem hood is an extra 10lbs past that by my scale.
I've lost 40lbs in 2 years and that was free. Well, I mean 90k in medical expenses from a gallbladder removal. But the diet change was free.
It's all relative.
Like I said. Low hanging fruit.
The oem hood is an extra 10lbs past that by my scale.
I've lost 40lbs in 2 years and that was free. Well, I mean 90k in medical expenses from a gallbladder removal. But the diet change was free.
It's all relative.
Like I said. Low hanging fruit.
08-07-2015, 03:27 PM
#12
Inventor
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Hear hear. The sunroof panel and carrier are big lumps of steel. Even the interior panel is steel!
I made a fixed sunroof out of acrylic, long ago, but it was noisy and hot in the sun. I wish someone with some skilz would make functional CF sunroof parts to work with the stock mechanism.
I made a fixed sunroof out of acrylic, long ago, but it was noisy and hot in the sun. I wish someone with some skilz would make functional CF sunroof parts to work with the stock mechanism.
