FrankenCIS - Digital WUR via megasquirt
07-12-2014, 06:01 AM
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FrankenCIS - Digital WUR via megasquirt - Done!
Before I begin, I'd like to place on record that a properly adjusted and serviced K-Jetronic / CIS system is most definitely the preferred and cheapest way to go. With proper supplier/tuner support and/or personal know how a full and proper EFI conversion would be the second choice.
If you are crazy or there is a valid reason such as originality or historic racing classes etc. then this might be an option for you.
Why FrankenCIS?, I'm not really sure other than it seemed like a cool but oddball way of getting programmable EFI in the old beast.
I've had a MicroSquirt in the car for a couple of years now with custom firmware to control the 996 instrument cluster and S4 fans amongst other things like the ClimaTronic head and Audi RNS-E. I've been following the MegaSquirt install threads with interest and even collected most of the required bits to do the changeover when I pull the engine for a seal and hose refresh.
Then I started thinking the existing system is a bit crude but working well and VERY reliable, so what would I lose by changing to real EFI.
1. The existing base tune - I'd need to completely retune the car from scratch.
2. the almost atom bomb proof reliability
3. the factory look in the engine bay
Plus I'm quite OCD when it comes to a factory built look to things, meaning a lot of work to do it properly and "if it aint broke don't fix it!" should apply wherever possible.
Well after some research, I then chickened out as the CIS system is working fine, but the silly side of me then thought "Hey, what about a digital WUR?"
A few weeks of internet research later and it appears the small number of previous attempts by others have either had flaws in control or execution or failed to kick off.
I then looked at the wish list from one of the 930 ex-users of the UTCIS
and the penny dropped - use the MegaSquirt family to control a properly engineered digital WUR.
I own a software company and an engineering firm so voila, we have a project
Now as this is a MegaSquirt based project, the firmware for the MS is being written to be basically hardware independent and the project is being run in the spirit of the MegaSquirt family i.e. semi open source / hobbyist. So DIY from junkyard bits will certainly be possible, and even reviving a non-stepper UTCIS if you have one, therefore I will be posting this as a make-it-yourself type thread even though we will be producing and selling a really nice modular anodised metering block elsewhere.
The FrankenCIS concept works and is now operational on the bench, so what is it?
If you are crazy or there is a valid reason such as originality or historic racing classes etc. then this might be an option for you.
Why FrankenCIS?, I'm not really sure other than it seemed like a cool but oddball way of getting programmable EFI in the old beast.
I've had a MicroSquirt in the car for a couple of years now with custom firmware to control the 996 instrument cluster and S4 fans amongst other things like the ClimaTronic head and Audi RNS-E. I've been following the MegaSquirt install threads with interest and even collected most of the required bits to do the changeover when I pull the engine for a seal and hose refresh.
Then I started thinking the existing system is a bit crude but working well and VERY reliable, so what would I lose by changing to real EFI.
1. The existing base tune - I'd need to completely retune the car from scratch.
2. the almost atom bomb proof reliability
3. the factory look in the engine bay
Plus I'm quite OCD when it comes to a factory built look to things, meaning a lot of work to do it properly and "if it aint broke don't fix it!" should apply wherever possible.
Well after some research, I then chickened out as the CIS system is working fine, but the silly side of me then thought "Hey, what about a digital WUR?"
A few weeks of internet research later and it appears the small number of previous attempts by others have either had flaws in control or execution or failed to kick off.
I then looked at the wish list from one of the 930 ex-users of the UTCIS
1) Instead of entering control pressure, it should use a wideband 02 sensor in a closed loop system. That way you enter AFRs instead of control pressures (which is ultimately what we are trying to control)
2) The control pressure should be measured at the DWUR and electrically sent to the "brain" (Mine has a thin fuel line that can be easily kinked)
3) Random loss of programmed values should be fixed.
4) Output a warning signal whenever AFR is say 0.5 points above the requested value.
5) Let the software import/export the maps as excel or csv or text files that way it is much easier to optimize your map
6) Let it auto-tune itself, given the AFRs of point #1
2) The control pressure should be measured at the DWUR and electrically sent to the "brain" (Mine has a thin fuel line that can be easily kinked)
3) Random loss of programmed values should be fixed.
4) Output a warning signal whenever AFR is say 0.5 points above the requested value.
5) Let the software import/export the maps as excel or csv or text files that way it is much easier to optimize your map
6) Let it auto-tune itself, given the AFRs of point #1
I own a software company and an engineering firm so voila, we have a project
Now as this is a MegaSquirt based project, the firmware for the MS is being written to be basically hardware independent and the project is being run in the spirit of the MegaSquirt family i.e. semi open source / hobbyist. So DIY from junkyard bits will certainly be possible, and even reviving a non-stepper UTCIS if you have one, therefore I will be posting this as a make-it-yourself type thread even though we will be producing and selling a really nice modular anodised metering block elsewhere.
The FrankenCIS concept works and is now operational on the bench, so what is it?
Last edited by svpmx83; 12-27-2014 at 08:57 AM. Reason: spelling
e-CIS
07-12-2014, 07:29 AM
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FrankenCIS is a software and hardware project to allow the MegaSquirt family of engine controllers to replace the Bosch WUR.
MS2Extra firmware has been modified to change a "Squirt per Rev" to mapped fuel pressure control on Injector1. The target pressure is taken from a new map representing the WUR basic bar/temp curve and then modified by percentage according to changes in the remaining tuning options.
Currently using MS2extra 3.2.2 and the programming is discussed here
What it needs:
- a pretty anodised metering block - or a late non-stepper UTCIS if you have one - or some hardware bits if you are going the boneyard route.
- sense the actual fuel control pressure, we do that with a digital pressure sensor in the metering block, but a simple bosch oil pressure sensor or similar will do the trick. (Boneyard bit #1) Do make sure whatever you use is rated for fuel, as a massive fuel leak under the hood is a very a bad thing.
- control the pressure bleed and therefore the control pressure, we do that with a standard side feed fuel injector in the metering block by modifying the open time at a set frequency in response to the difference between the actual and target fuel pressures, the longer it's open per pulse the more the fuel pressure bleeds of then the lower the control pressure. again an alternative would probably be a fuel pressure frequency valve from an early CIS vehicle with O2 sensor control (CIS-lambda and Boneyard bit #2)
from an early 80s VW
- Engine Temp - a temp sensor bolted to the block or tapping into the engine coolant temp to will do nicely.
- Engine revs rpm output from the CDI to the Tach
- MAP sensor - 1 bar rated for NA - 3 or more for turbo or charged applications
What would be nice:
- RPM and Position - the good old green wire if you want to take over basic spark control, over that any of the available crank sensor options up to the 60 tooth flywheel would allow silly levels of resolution and control for spark and fuel. I'm personally going for a modified distributor with 24-1-1 VR as a compromise with a single coil.
- O2 sensor - narrow or wideband, for AFR target control. a wideband unit would obviously be better for range and to use the Tuner Studio semi-self tuning option. We will be using the LC-2 as it's one of the ones MegaSquirt already knows how to talk to.
- PWM Idle valve to allow the system to control idle speed - I'm personally having my staff make one to look like the original IAC
- TPS - basically the more sensors available to the system the better the control and tuning options become
A MicroSquirt or MegaSquirt II is the sensible minimum needed to control it.
MS3 or MS3Pro if you are willing to do your own software mods and testing will give you a wider range of advanced toys including the CEL warning light option asked for.
The good news is almost everything carries over to a full EFI system if you ever decide to crossover to the dark side (or is that leave the dark side)
In its simplest implementation - mimicking the WUR by a temperature to bar map and closed loop pressure control. With optional interceptor like +- control of fuel mixture using the full mapping abilities of the MegaSquirt family.
More advanced implementations - the sky is the limit really, Spark and Idle control, Full fuel mapping, Closed loop wideband O2 control, Boost enrichment and or pressure control, and so on.
How are we doing it?More advanced implementations - the sky is the limit really, Spark and Idle control, Full fuel mapping, Closed loop wideband O2 control, Boost enrichment and or pressure control, and so on.
MS2Extra firmware has been modified to change a "Squirt per Rev" to mapped fuel pressure control on Injector1. The target pressure is taken from a new map representing the WUR basic bar/temp curve and then modified by percentage according to changes in the remaining tuning options.
Currently using MS2extra 3.2.2 and the programming is discussed here
What it needs:
- a pretty anodised metering block
- or a late non-stepper UTCIS if you have one - or some hardware bits if you are going the boneyard route.- sense the actual fuel control pressure, we do that with a digital pressure sensor in the metering block, but a simple bosch oil pressure sensor or similar will do the trick. (Boneyard bit #1) Do make sure whatever you use is rated for fuel, as a massive fuel leak under the hood is a very a bad thing.
- control the pressure bleed and therefore the control pressure, we do that with a standard side feed fuel injector in the metering block by modifying the open time at a set frequency in response to the difference between the actual and target fuel pressures, the longer it's open per pulse the more the fuel pressure bleeds of then the lower the control pressure. again an alternative would probably be a fuel pressure frequency valve from an early CIS vehicle with O2 sensor control (CIS-lambda and Boneyard bit #2)
from an early 80s VW
- Engine Temp - a temp sensor bolted to the block or tapping into the engine coolant temp to will do nicely.
- Engine revs rpm output from the CDI to the Tach
- MAP sensor - 1 bar rated for NA - 3 or more for turbo or charged applications
What would be nice:
- RPM and Position - the good old green wire if you want to take over basic spark control, over that any of the available crank sensor options up to the 60 tooth flywheel would allow silly levels of resolution and control for spark and fuel. I'm personally going for a modified distributor with 24-1-1 VR as a compromise with a single coil.
- O2 sensor - narrow or wideband, for AFR target control. a wideband unit would obviously be better for range and to use the Tuner Studio semi-self tuning option. We will be using the LC-2 as it's one of the ones MegaSquirt already knows how to talk to.
- PWM Idle valve to allow the system to control idle speed - I'm personally having my staff make one to look like the original IAC
- TPS - basically the more sensors available to the system the better the control and tuning options become
A MicroSquirt or MegaSquirt II is the sensible minimum needed to control it.
MS3 or MS3Pro if you are willing to do your own software mods and testing will give you a wider range of advanced toys including the CEL warning light option asked for.
The good news is almost everything carries over to a full EFI system if you ever decide to crossover to the dark side (or is that leave the dark side)
Last edited by svpmx83; 03-20-2015 at 11:35 PM.
07-12-2014, 05:38 PM
#4
Why not use a high pressure solenoid valve with pressure adjuster built into the output.. and then modify an Ardiuno that on startup below a temp value the valve is open. Above it closes and raises the control pressure?
07-12-2014, 10:16 PM
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curt_928
you would lose two of the main functions of the bosch WUR
Time and temperature enrichment on start-up, and mixture control based on manifold vacuum
also with the valve closed the system would go to full lean as the control pressure would be the same as system pressure
The WUR is a lot more complex than it's name suggests
{I edited the first post as I put the MAP sensor in the nice to have instead of need }
you would lose two of the main functions of the bosch WUR
Time and temperature enrichment on start-up, and mixture control based on manifold vacuum
also with the valve closed the system would go to full lean as the control pressure would be the same as system pressure
The WUR is a lot more complex than it's name suggests
{I edited the first post as I put the MAP sensor in the nice to have instead of need }
Last edited by svpmx83; 07-12-2014 at 10:58 PM.
07-13-2014, 01:20 AM
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Mine is CIS, and I contacted Unwired once about their UTCIS WUR. As soon as asked how it worked on a car without an O2 sensor, they went silent and unresponsive. **** on a bull come to mind.
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k
jp 83 Euro S AT 55k
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07-13-2014, 01:42 AM
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UATOAB 
= Unwired or the product concept?
The presence or lack of an o2 sensor should not be a factor especially as their solution doesn't use one and they recommend the lambda portion of the system is disabled if it exists, so I don't know why they were quiet on that. They do seem to have withdrawn from talking to the 930 guys on pelican and the last update to their blog was a long while ago so .....
This project is mainly a "cos I can" for giggles, and pretty much pointless on a properly working CIS 928 as stated in the first post.
I think showing in EFI terms what it takes to mimic a WUR would be helpful to those that currently hear CIS dismissed as archaic voodoo.
= Unwired or the product concept?The presence or lack of an o2 sensor should not be a factor especially as their solution doesn't use one and they recommend the lambda portion of the system is disabled if it exists, so I don't know why they were quiet on that. They do seem to have withdrawn from talking to the 930 guys on pelican and the last update to their blog was a long while ago so .....
This project is mainly a "cos I can" for giggles, and pretty much pointless on a properly working CIS 928 as stated in the first post.
I think showing in EFI terms what it takes to mimic a WUR would be helpful to those that currently hear CIS dismissed as archaic voodoo.
07-14-2014, 03:29 PM
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I'll be following your progress. I was thinking of something along these lines myself. My vision was to build something that would go inside the current WUR housing. There are a new series of PIC microcontrollers that can run at engine temperatures (so the smarts can go inside, not cabled off to the side) and small automotive sensors are available for not much $. The actuator might be tricky, but I think it could be done. Anyway, I will probably never pursue my project, so I'll be watching yours.
07-14-2014, 06:28 PM
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A very interesting project. As someone who comes from the Mitsubishi Evo world, I'm used to being able make my car's ECU sing & dance in pretty much any way I desire. That includes replacing pretty much all of the OE code with a highly personalized version tweaked specifically to support my car with its unique collection of modifications.
Gaining control of the spark and fuel maps on an OB would open up a whole world of tuning and update potential. I am very interested in your progress, please keep the information coming.
Also, I am curious, why not just go straight to MS3? To me that would seem to be the logical entry point for anyone considering starting a new project like this. While the MS3 might be more than is needed for the basics, it should be able to support pretty much any form of upgrade someone would choose to do along this path. I know that if I decide to upgrade my engine management, I will most likely go straight to MS3 or MS3Pro.
Gaining control of the spark and fuel maps on an OB would open up a whole world of tuning and update potential. I am very interested in your progress, please keep the information coming.
Also, I am curious, why not just go straight to MS3? To me that would seem to be the logical entry point for anyone considering starting a new project like this. While the MS3 might be more than is needed for the basics, it should be able to support pretty much any form of upgrade someone would choose to do along this path. I know that if I decide to upgrade my engine management, I will most likely go straight to MS3 or MS3Pro.
07-14-2014, 09:40 PM
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The MicroSquirt is less than a third of the price and simple to install and setup.
If this project actually produces an improvement in tuning or drivability/performance then porting the changes to MS3 could certainly be done. But I don't know if I would personally bother upgrading until it was needed for real EFI. Who knows, MS4 may be out by then
If this project actually produces an improvement in tuning or drivability/performance then porting the changes to MS3 could certainly be done. But I don't know if I would personally bother upgrading until it was needed for real EFI. Who knows, MS4 may be out by then
09-08-2014, 12:53 PM
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Are we reinventing KE-jet with a digital controller? The description and the hardware show look functionally similar to KE-jet used on other cars in the 1980-ish period, albeit with analog 'smarts' at that time.
Watching with interest!
Watching with interest!
09-08-2014, 04:55 PM
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Nice to see you are still making progress. I am a bit curious and am wondering if it might be possible to use the working side as a source for pressure readings and mapping, instead of the control side. The working side of the system is what is actually is responsible for getting the correct amount of fuel into the injectors. I do understand how changes on the control side will impact the working side.
I was just thinking that if the electronics would allow it, mapping and measuring the working side directly could remove the need to create custom mapping for each specific configuration on the control side. In other words, changing to a different style of fuel pump and filter could be compensated for by reading the working pressures, instead of needing a customized control pressure map designed for that pump and filter combination. Changes to injectors or modifying the working pressures would still require custom tuning, but these kinds of modifications already require custom tuning with both the OE system and the new design.
As a final step, if the system could control spark, then this would be a drop-in tuning solution for almost any configuration someone wanted to try, assuming other supporting upgrades were also made.
I was just thinking that if the electronics would allow it, mapping and measuring the working side directly could remove the need to create custom mapping for each specific configuration on the control side. In other words, changing to a different style of fuel pump and filter could be compensated for by reading the working pressures, instead of needing a customized control pressure map designed for that pump and filter combination. Changes to injectors or modifying the working pressures would still require custom tuning, but these kinds of modifications already require custom tuning with both the OE system and the new design.
As a final step, if the system could control spark, then this would be a drop-in tuning solution for almost any configuration someone wanted to try, assuming other supporting upgrades were also made.