srupp1969

Singer does it right and doesn't leave one piece untouched, Combined with 20th century technology and upgrades and unique design features adding this special flavour is the right mix and worth every dollar in my eyes.
Sadly or good for collectors they are only producing a handfull per year.

I tried to go the same way with my 928 to convert it to a 928 GTR:
Also no piece untouched, build up from the bottom up, basically a new car and went completelly out of control :-)) , with an investment of around 100k Euro at the moment (call me crazy, I don't care, my wife already did :-)) ).
Some short facts:
Base car: 928 S4 Auto 1987, 1 owner car, 475000 Km ( see: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...the-shark.html )
Exterior: VW Carbon Grey Metallic
Interior: BMW M3 Brown leather/ Alcantara Black/ Black High Gloss,
Seats: Turbo 930, Shifter: Lamborghini Murcielago
Wheels: Volk Rays Lighweight
Brakes: Brembo BBK
Auto to 5 -Speed conversion, Spec Stage 3 clutch
Suspension: Koni/Hypercoil and everthing the 928 Motorsports catalogue is offering, Big Sway Bar kit front/rear
Engine: major overhaul, Murf928 Stage 3 Kit, Headers + custom exhaust GT3 look alike, Accusump, came just back from the Dyno: 482 HP/ 610 NM, will receive larger intercooler and smaller pulley in a few weeks.
...tbc..
Will open a separate thread once the car is finished in a few weeks as it is really about the details.
Just consider it as a teaser and my personal interpretation of how a a singer 928 could look like ;-).
Best
Stefan

srupp1969

two more pics:

Andre The Giant

I currently own a MY 1985 with 288HP which I feel as been designed to do what it can and so far it's great. If I ever won a jackpot, I always said that I would keep my 1985 and get it rebuilt to factory fresh only changing one this would be to add the X-Pipe to be able to have the same HP as the S4's currently enjoy. The MY which have less electronics to me are better in my view just for the fact that one less thing to go wrong and they will go wrong.

Personally I would not add a turbo or supercharger just because the chassis/car has been designed to work ultimately at that power rating. Yes I know you can modify everything to update to today's standards, but then the car you have is no longer a complete Porsche design.

I bought a Porsche because they handle extremely well in curves (German engineering) and I believe that a Porsche is very special.

What I would do though is probably purchase or lease myself a Turbo 911 for 3 to 5 years just because I could !

slate blue

I have just had time to read some of this thread and saw this post and thought "yep" that is about it. I know a little bit about the Singer but I am certainly no expert. The car I am building will certainly be able to be considered an equivalent.

I didn't start with a budget in mind and that maybe was a mistake, the costs are very high but so is the spec. The spec has changed from time to time as some of you would know and that itself costs money. In the end I decided to stick with 2 valves and a stick shift gearbox.

The car will be measured on a number of fronts, visual appearance, modernised interior, and modernised engine and driveline. To give some idea of the costs and most of this money has already been paid out so it is not some pipe dream. Also with some parts with extensive labour content like the exhaust I will include the material and labour to give a more accurate price.

The dampers, ride height system, sensors, the PFC 997 Turbo brakes with 12 way adjustable ABS, the wheels (2 sets) $40K min
The inconel F1 style exhaust $25K. The Cosworth ECU and data logger and mil spec wiring $15K. The Corvette 7 speed conversion which is next, this includes carbon clutch, carbon drive shaft, super finished with modified gear ratios, custom 928 ring and pinion, it will not use the Corvette differential and will use a custom software program to run the PSD diff around $40K.

So before you start on the engine, which is extremely high tech and uses some F1 technology for performance and packaging you have a mighty bill already. The body work will be partly carbon, i.e the hood, fenders, turret and hatch. These are modified aero pieces for high speed track work.

The costs quoted are only basic costs, the components are not dialled in and there is clearly more work to be done. The ECU for example can rev match the gear changes and has many many features, some a little obtuse like driveline backlash control, you can also adjust the amount of engine braking that you want, this ECU is used in the top level Le Mans and Moto GP. I suspect programming will be time consuming.

Mark Anderson

I don't know any details but I just sold my 90 GT to someone at Singer

Rob Edwards

Not sure whether it was there the last time I checked the Singer website but there's a 12-page 'Specs and Program Options' listing in pdf form that I think provides a lot of insight into the philosophy of what Singer's trying to do, in parallel with providing customers enough latitude to spec the balance between comfort and performance. There are 'only' 2 engine specs, 270 hp and 360 hp, and the latter is for Off Road Use only. They could certainly stuff a GT2 motor into a 964, but that doesn't seem to be part of the DNA they're shooting for.

http://singer.ericmcarlisle.com/wp-c...am-options.pdf

The Fixer

A while ago i sent them pics of my RS and asked why they don't do one for an encore..

They got back to me about 2-3 weeks later saying that they may do one.

It would be a real boon for the model if they did this.

I mentioned this by email to Pete Stout and he replied : the "big guns" aren't ready to buy Singer 928s yet.

I don't see why not. It's a better platform.

brealytrent

Imagine an all aluminum and carbon fiber 928 with modern brakes, power, transmission, etc. It. would. be. GREAT!

slate blue

Well how much power do you want? I asked Tuomo in the port polish committee thread to estimate the power from my 4V stroker, my guess is 900+ HP if the figures provided by Strosek Ultra are able to be replicated on a 28" or 60" bench.

The transmission is available courtesy of GM. While I will only seek 700+ HP from the 2V stroker the reasoning is that the older body style is more suited to the older style lower centre of gravity motor and stick shift albeit with "rev match" capability. Given the speed of the new manual Z06 Corvette at 11.3 seconds through the 1/4 mile I will not be able to beat that due to the modern chassis of that car. While my dampers are much more expensive than the Vette's the Vette's are superior due to bulk buying by GM.

My guess is around 11.5 seconds for the 1/4 mile and that is only 1 second quicker than it was with a 5.0 litre engine! I suspect my my engine going into the wife's car will also be able to complete the 1/4 in 12.5 seconds and as such there is only a small gain to be had for a massive spend but on the track it will make a difference. I will be able to verify the wife's car by mid this year. I can't see a problem with that and maybe sooner.

I would have like to have also built a 4V car but the spend on a car worth a suppose what the dampers and brakes cost which is more than $30K can't be justified and I need to get on with other things in my life however I certainly don't rule out the building of a 4V engine, many components have been purchased and manufactured.

Leon Speed

Small hijack: how will you get that past TÜV ?

srupp1969

I'll let you know when I was there and post this in a separate thread :-).
first registered in 11/86, no cats required, runs on red 07 number at the moment but I will try to get it fully street legal. Wheels, brakes, suspension no problem, let's see what they think about the engine and exhaust .
Best
Stefan

MN

No grüne Plakette, no driving in Munich!

Have you considered getting a LIPPARDT Metallkat?

MN

You must be a big wig at the European Patent Office.

Leon Speed

Great, look forward to it. Sorry for the hijack folks.

GregBBRD

Repeated thoughts. Simplified.

I wonder what the market is for a highly detailed, updated, fast, better stopping, better handling, cooler running (water and oil temperature), significantly improved A/C 928?

Oh wait, I already do that.....

If a 964 cost 400-500K to do, a "completely redone Singer 928" is going to be far "north" of that...the 928 complexity and shear number of parts tells one that.

Just getting a group of "911 expert employees" up to speed enough to have the ability to do a 928 is a gargantuan task.....we're talking years and years to get one person to know anywhere near what I know.....I know this from training people, here.

As mentioned, both of Dan Hebert's cars were certainly very trick....but people were stunned that he spent over 100K on those cars....and they sold for literally pennies on his dollar.

Exactly how many people, that are reading this thread, would step up and buy a 500-750K Singer 928? How about a $350,000 Singer 928?(Not that they could do it, for this price.)

There's the dilemma.