x98boardwell

Is there a technical article or somewhere that will tell me when to use Loctite 574, Hylomer or Honda bond, or no sealant at all when doing a refresh? I was hoping to find one source for all of them rather than search for each one.

Also, is there a special technique when putting in the oil pan stud kit? all the studs are the same length. How far should I put all of them in or do some go in further than the others? Also, do I use some Loctitie on these (not 574 but standard red or clue stuff) studs before installing the ensure they won't loosen?

Here are the parts I am concerned about sealant and proper torque specs...

1) Valve cover seal - put hondabond or hylomer on edges and corners. Should I put any inside the valve cover where the seal slides into? What about spark plug seals?
2) Cylinder head plugs for the end of the cams. They have the bracket that holds them in. Do I put anything on those?
3) Cam cap (between valve cover and cam gear) is this just the Loctite 574 since it is a machined surface? What about surface prep
4) oil pan gasket (new silicone style) I know I shouldn't put anything on this but what about the studs, are they secure enough not to leak since the silicone will be doing the job?
5) Water bridge. What to use on paper seals... Curil-T? Do I use anything on the O-Ring other than a dab of petroleum jelly to help slide it in?
6) Water pump. I know I am supposed to only use sealant on water pump side of the gasket but which kind?
7) Thermostat O-ring: Anything on this one? It isn't truly an O-ring, it is in the shape of an O but is plastic and not flexible. Use anything on this?
8) What about on oil filler tube gasket? I know there is an O-Ring under there but I have heard about the older style thicker gasket... is it just a thicker O-ring or is there a paper gasket component to the old style?

9) 928-105-262-00 This is a cylinder head plug. it looks like a little metal shaft. Where do these go?

Lastly, one of my cam cover bolts were slightly bent and I wanted to replace it. Does this happen often and do we ever replace the bolts besides the seals and washers? They seem sturdy but wanted to just make sure I shouldn't be replacing all of them.

Thanks for any help in advance.
Bryan

ammonman

Clean the groove in the cam cover and the spark plug tube seal surface on the cover to remove the old paint and any oil. The paint/coating is probably failing and will prevent a good seal. Put some Honda/Yama/DrieBond in the groove, on the flat of the cover gasket, and on the flat areas of the spark plug tube seals. Also put some in the corners where the cam bearing caps meet the head surface. Be sure to put one of the additional sealing rings on each of the cam cover bolts. Porsche originally only did the bottom row plus the end bolts of the middle row to provide more clamping force and prevent leakage. Adding the sealing rings to every bolt helps ensure the spark plug tube seals don't leak. The cam plugs are rubber coated and don't require any sealant. The are supposed to be driven in after the cam caps are in place and torqued. The cam caps get Loctite 574. Loctite says it's only necessary to remove any grease or oil and the new sealant will soften and adhere to the old. Some here prefer to carefully scrape the old sealant off with a razor blade held perpendicular to the head surface. Rather than petroleum jelly on o-rings get some silicone grease. Dow Corning 111 silicone valve sealant is a non-hardening silicone that works well to seal and preserve o-rings. You can also get small pots of silicone grease in the plumbing section of most home centers. For the water pump the gasket goes on dry. The thermostat has two seals. The o-ring is a standard o-ring and should be pliable. The thermostat seal is circular rubber coated metal with a "C" profile. a dab of silicone grease on it's face after installation can't hurt. For the oil filler tube use a liberal layer (1/8") of Honda/Yama/DrieBond on the bottom of the filler along with the o-ring seal. The plastic neck base is usually warped slightly and the o-ring alone isn't sufficient to seal it. The little metal shafts are machined with a smaller diameter at one end. Once you remove the rear cam cap and remove any existing old style journal block off plugs that have rubber pucks to keep them in place the new "puck-free" pins slip into the oil holes in the bare journals. Once the cam cap is in place the pins are too long to come out and will ensure you maintain oil pressure to the heads.

Mike

Mrmerlin

Very nice writeup Mike

linderpat

Bryan - this thread here is the keeper, and mods should merge your thread into it so it all stays in one place: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ubricants.html

x98boardwell

Thank you guys for the info. Mike, great response and Ed, thanks for sharing the link... I will review in the AM and hit the garage ready to put a dent in getting this back together and on the road.

PR89928GT

my oil pan have a good amount of oil leaking want to have it replaced.. question factory oem shows cork gasket? is there a better aftermarket to go with? dealer wants 10hr! to do and wants to up-sell new engine mounts....? any thoughts or ideas welcome..( dont want it to start leaking after the 2yr warranty expires!) tks p

Hilton

I agree with all Mike said except for the above - I don't subscribe to the idea of basically gluing the engine together with sealant.

Just clean the contact surfaces well, and put the gaskets on dry except when the factory recommends something (e.g. the corner of the cam covers where the cam cap seam is). I've had no leaks on the 3 S4's I've owned and done this job on, except one where the gasket slipped out of the groove and folded where I couldn't see it - and that was easily fixed and hasn't leaked in the 5 years since.

The oil filler necks I've read over the years are prone to warping - none of my cars suffered this, with 156k, 121k and 118k miles on each when I had them apart, so I just fitted the o-rings dry and have had no leaks. Use a straight edge to see if yours is actually warped.

When I went to check if new filler necks are still available, I found Porsche report the filler neck part number (928 107 303 07) as having been superseded by 928 107 707 04, which is the paper gasket used on earlier cars, so I'm wondering whether its a database error, or whether new ones are no longer available (I see 928intl have a new one on their site?).

x98boardwell

Thanks again for the input. A few questions still.

1) What is the proper installation of the oil pan stud kit? All are the same length but the bolts I took out were not. Do I use Loctite on the studs as well to keep them in place.. I would think so.
3) Is there a good area to find appropriate torque settings for these items?

Thanks,
Bryan

hacker-pschorr

+1

When I was replacing the thermostat on the Ford V8 in my replica Cobra, I could not get it to stop leaking. I called up my Ford guru for advice and he said:
"This isn't a Porsche, go buy some XYZ sealant and slather it on everything"

I do use the Dow silicone lube on anything rubber just to be safe it doesn't snag on anything and tear.

With the silicone pan gasket I only used lock washers and went round and round maybe one turn each time in a random pattern until they were "snug".

You will not be able to get a torque wrench on some of the bolts, so I didn't see much point in using a torque wrench on any of them. In a situation like this, I figure out what wrench will fit on all of them so I get a "feel" for how tight I'm getting them.

Knock on wood, no leaks after about 10 years. Same for the cam boxes (16V) using the factory gasket (didn't know about Greg's at that time).

x98boardwell

Any input on how far studs are installed? Also, Loctite usage on studs? It would seem that I would so in the future if I need to remove the studs don't come with the nuts upon removal.

Thanks,
Bryan

Ducman82

What studs are you using? I used some blue loctite.

jcorenman

Bryan, most of the studs are blind holes, so just screw them in until they touch bottom. I used red loctite so they would stay put when the nuts get removed.

Five of the studs need to be shorter-- four under crossmember, and one under the starter where there is less clearance and the oil pan is dimpled. My kit was all the same length so I shortened them with a grinder and cleaned up the threads.

The silicon gasket needs some compression to work, but too much compression and it wants to squeeze out of the gap. Torque measurement is not helpful because the gasket is soft and the pan is rigid, and the nuts are hopefully nyloks. Like Hacker said, do it by hand and tighten progressively-- start with all the nuts just touching, then another one or two quarter-turns.

Ideally a gasket like this would have metal inserts to limit compression (like the rubber intake gaskets), but the silicone pan gasket doesn't come that way and the pan design doesn't readily accommodate it.

x98boardwell

Thanks Jim,

Here is what I found as well.

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-stud-kit.html

Some good info here and thanks for all the help!!!

Off to the garage!
Bryan

PR89928GT

89 928 GT. OIL LEAK FROM OIL PAN DEALER WANTS 10HR LABOR TO R/R
ALSO WANTS TO UPSELL NEW E/MOUNTS WHILE WORKING IN SAME AREA
NOT SURE IF CORK SHOULD BE USED BASED ON DEALER ,,,NOW DEALER SAYS CORK ONLY CHOICE, NOT SURE WHAT TO DO. ANY IDEAS OR OTHER TYPE OF GASKET BEING USED FOR BETTER SEAL AND LONGEVITY.

jcorenman

The caps-lock key is on left, next to "A" key.

Ten hours does not sound unreasonable, it is a fair bit of work. And yes, cork gaskets are the only type available from Porsche. They work fine if properly installed. And changing engine mounts, if needed, makes a lot of sense while they are in there. But you probably won't like the price for Porsche engine mounts. And Porsche installs Porsche parts, that's just how they roll.

The alternative, if you don't want to do your own work, is to find a good indy mechanic. The silicone rubber gasket oil pan discussed here works well if properly installed, available from Roger (928sRus), and Roger can also supply aftermarket (Volvo) engine mounts at a good price.