WallyP

In another thread, a RennLister said:
"I don't want to start another oil debate but, it bugs me when everyone assumes M1 is the holy grail. It isn't even made from fully synthetic stocks anymore. It has been beat up by competing oils so many times in the lab, I am surprised they can even sell the stuff. To each his own however."

A quick session with Google found the Mobil 1 web site. In the FAQs we find:

"Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ a fully synthetic motor oil?

Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application."

So, either Mobil is lying on a public site, and therefore opening themselves to all kinds of potential legal problems, or the story about Mobil 1 not being synthetic is more web BS.

While this is from an Amsoil site, and therefore not exactly an unbiased source, it seems to be both informative and straightforward.

http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/articles60.htm

Let the games begin.

Wally

BrianG

Wally, you know what they do with a dog that won't leave porcupines alone, don't you??

Gretch

Thanks (once again) Wally.

The good thing about the internet is the vast amount of information that is immediately at hand, the bad thing about it is the internet only represents a change in media form factor.

Like the newspaper, a high percentage of what people "publish" on the internet is "Bovine Scattology".

Discussion forums like this one attract all kinds of folks. Some come looking for accurate information, some come to see themselves in print.....

Long live intellectual honesty.

Brent 89-GT

That was my comment about M1. I do not think Mobil is "technically" lying in public. They are certainly not subjecting themselves to liability. The decision was that even chemically altered mineral oil basestocks can be marketed as full synthetic. Mobil is not challenging the decision because they have instead chosen to use the cheaper mineral oil (ie;"high performance fluids")basestocks in addition to PAO's. The courts decision gets them off the hook. They went ahead and did exactly what Castrol did, exactly what they critisized them for, and downgraded their product for money. I don't blame them one bit, I also do not use their oil.

So Castrol "Syntec" is not made from PAO's, it is a manipulated mineral oil. M1 "Super Syn" uses PAO's but also modified mineral oil basestocks. How much is PAO? They do not say. Some of the experts contend that the modified mineral oil stocks are as good as the PAO's.

Lots of people have had very good luck with M1 in the past. What you need to know is that the old M1 WAS a true PAO based synthetic. Todays M1 is not, they sold out based on this court case and the need to please stockholders. Again, I see nothing wrong with that, I just don't think M1 is the "best" choice anymore.

Gretch

Brent,

Have you got some references you can provide with regard to the current chemical make up of M1?

Jim bailey - 928 International

So by "defining" synthetic in a way which confuses most consumers we now get high priced mineral oil which has been morphed into "something" which may or may not be any better than the low priced spread ...in fact claims of superiority were specifically NOT ALLOWED to be made any longer . If the government states that cats are dogs ...... and cats are less expensive to make but can be sold as dogs .....it is the American way ! Mobile could be expected to also switch to selling cats as dogs .

Brent 89-GT

Gretch, No, I do not have anything handy. It is something that I looked into more thoroughly last winter. I did view links provided on this site or possibly the email list here, I do not remember for sure. I did not see an exact chemical breakdown however. I highly doubt that information like that is published by any oil maker.

In the absence of concrete proof, it is interesting to me that M1 lists that they use "high performance fluids with PAO's". Isn't that tantamount to an admission? What about the fact that they accepted the decision with no protest or appeal? The "proof" is out there if you have time to search for it. Sorta like weapons of mass destruction, lots of evidence that nobody wants to accept.

Gretch

I hear your conviction and the facts you mention do appear circumstantial.

So the sum total of what you have presented so far certainly reaches the standard of "opinion" but without references is a bit shy of meeting the "factual" standard.

Yeah?

Brent 89-GT

I'll go along with that. I think that anything short of a chemical analysis is going to have to be regarded as opinion.

Now, we could go out and buy some oil and have an independant analysis done. I fear that publishing results like that publically would probably land you in a lawsuit. The formulations are proprietary to the manufacturers. It would be interesting to know about what percentage is PAO base and what is mineral. I don't know a darn thing about testing like that. How easy, or difficult are compositions like that to identify? Obviously Mobil did it with Castrols product, does anybody know what is required? Time, cost, a good lab?

For me, the evidence that I have seen is pretty convincing against M1. I choose to run something else in my car. There appears to be a group that needs proof of M1's wrongdoing. I am just on the other side of the fence, I need to be convinced that they didn't compromise the formulation.

Gretch

BrianG was right...........Thanks a pant-load Wally........

chris928

Porsche engineers see fit to put M1 in at the factory and put stickers on the car recommending the use of it.

Is it the best synthetic, highly doubtful. Amsoil, Redline, Neo, the list goes on.

I used to use M1 in an econobox I had and sold it at 160 k mi. throughout it's life I changed the oil only once a year. At the time I sold it, it would burn about 1/2 quart every 30,000 miles (roughly one change interval). Needless to say, I was very satisfied.

Now I'm an Amsoil user.

Bottom line is that it seems that the lubricants for our sharks have vastly improved since the shark was born.

mark kibort

mobil one's track record sure isnt the best in the business.

amzoil I think is worth the extra money

Mk

Jim bailey - 928 International

I would be willing to bet money that Porsche gets the oil for FREE !!!! think about it ..... I think I recall advertisements which tout the "fact" that the oil was "selected" by Porsche for the fill at the factory .. Reality is just about any oil you can find for sale will exceed the minimum standards required for engine lubricant . The advantages of "real" synthetic oil are for extreme heat / pressure typical of racing more than anything else .

Shmurzik

A question then: what type of oil would one recommend for use in a 32V 928 engine? Viscosity and such?

Jim bailey - 928 International

Porsche ..."brand name heavy duty oil to API classisfication S E . For all year operations multi-grade oil of viscosity SAE 15w-50 or 20 W 50 ( the later is not suitable for temperatures constantly below -15 C ) " another reference " high quality multi-grade oil " ... API SE/SF- mit combination API SE/CC-SE/CD--SF/CC SF/CD multigrade oil as approved by plant . If absolutely necessary brand name single grade SAE 30 in summer......So what to use ??? Porsche just wants a multigrade 15-50 ........