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Don't Ban me - why not an after market radiator?

 
Old 06-13-2013, 10:54 AM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by MjRocket View Post
This makes you think, kinda scares me as to weather I'll be able to keep my 928 running 10 years from now do to a lack of parts.
All the more reason we need to keep supporting ALL of our parts suppliers here. These guys, from Dave to Roger to Carl, et al, are taking a huge risk supporting this small community, and even more so by trying to be innovative with replacements for wear items. Like radiators.
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Old 06-13-2013, 10:57 AM
  #77  
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Carl I do not think this is funny at all but a very serious matter about supply of the parts for our cars. You supplied the stats and I presented them - you keep changing the stats and I will update them. How you go from 40 to 250 in one leap is interesting to say the least. I guess you know your business or do you?
Let me know when you are happy with your numbers and I will update my chart to reflect the stats you are happy with.

It would be interesting to know how many Behr rads have failed within the first five years of service. I will use a few part numbers with the wholesalers and see the level of warranty returns.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:05 AM
  #78  
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Another thing to consider... how old are those Behr rads that are "new"? Reminds me of something a Porsche tech said to me recently. Paraphrasing here, but it was along the lines of "sure you can buy a 'new' part from Porsche for your 25 year old car, but how long has it been sitting on the shelf drying out?" He called it "old new old stock." ONOS. As in, oh no, I'm going to have to replace this part under warranty.
Actually not such an issue any more - with the significant increase in the requirement for 928 parts many of the more common parts are new manufacture. Obscure parts have old manufacturing dates but if the part is not effected by age it is not an issue. Parts that are subject to shelf life are controlled by Porsche as part of their quality control procedure. Every part has a manufacturing date and warranty is two years.

When I first started buying from Porsche parts would often go out of stock and go to a no longer manufactured status. More often than not currently they go onto manufacturing back order and become available again. The 928 community buying power has changed the pendulum in our favor with Porsche Classic.

Now if we can just get them to make more GTS left wheel liners and PSD reservoirs - life would be good 8>)
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:14 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by ROG100 View Post

Actually not such an issue any more - with the significant increase in the requirement for 928 parts many of the more common parts are new manufacture. Obscure parts have old manufacturing dates but if the part is not effected by age it is not an issue. Parts that are subject to shelf life are controlled by Porsche as part of their quality control procedure. Every part has a manufacturing date and warranty is two years.

When I first started buying from Porsche parts would often go out of stock and go to a no longer manufactured status. More often than not currently they go onto manufacturing back order and become available again. The 928 community buying power has changed the pendulum in our favor with Porsche Classic.

Now if we can just get them to make more GTS left wheel liners and PSD reservoirs - life would be good 8>)
Now that's what I needed to hear! That eases the worried mind a bit. I can smile again

Seriously tho I luv my 928 and plan to keep her indefinitely so it that is Awesome to hear Rog.

Thx
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:21 AM
  #80  
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Yes, definitely good to hear, Roger! Thanks! I still like to support responsible innovation for these cars, though. Things like the Porkensioner and Sharktuning, for example. We are very fortunate to have folks like you and Carl in the tank with us and I hope you know that we all appreciate it.

Definitely curious to compare Behr failure rates with aluminum rad failure rates, though I'm not sure a truly accurate comparison is even possible unless the manufacturers know of each failure. And pretty much any part you can imagine can fail for any number of reasons.

Last edited by Courtshark; 06-13-2013 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 06-13-2013, 11:26 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Carl Fausett View Post
I'll post my accurate numbers, although I am sure Roger will make fun of them again. I said "more than 40" which he took to mean "40". As that served his point, I'm not surprised.

I wrote my manufacturer for our actual numbers and got this back this morning:



250 sold with 6 warranty repairs = a 2% failure rate. Note also our radiators have been in the field since 2009.

For Mark, he posts 284 radiators with 12 returns, for a 4% failure rate. And his rads have been in the field longer than mine!

As I said before - I wouldn't be so quick to state that after-market radiators are "failures" with stats like these.

Really..you wouldn't?

These are miserable numbers in almost any industry...and likely only reflect in-warranty returns.

No disrespect to you Carl, or Mark, or Roger..or anyone else.

If an OEM had a 2% AFR, you would have a nationwide recall in effect.
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:48 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Courtshark View Post
Yes, definitely good to hear, Roger! Thanks! I still like to support responsible innovation for these cars, though. Things like the Porkensioner and Sharktuning, for example. We are very fortunate to have folks like you and Carl in the tank with us and I hope you know that we all appreciate it.

Definitely curious to compare Behr failure rates with aluminum rad failure rates, though I'm not sure a truly accurate comparison is even possible unless the manufacturers know of each failure. And pretty much any part you can imagine can fail for any number of reasons.
I've installed probably 100 new Behr radiators, in the past 20 years. Never had one leak...even the ones that I installed 20 years ago are still fine.

I'd guess that "track record" will be very difficult to break....regardless of who makes them.

The only "bright spot" in this whole thread is that Porsche still has inventory....and although they will cost more money than Roger and 928 International have been selling the "early/universal" Behr units for, we will still be able to get a great replacement radiator, for the immediate future.
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Old 06-13-2013, 02:50 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by GregBBRD View Post
I've installed probably 100 new Behr radiators, in the past 20 years. Never had one leak...even the ones that I installed 20 years ago.
But why did they need replacing?
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:24 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Courtshark View Post
But why did they need replacing?
Because they were 20 years old? Or they had the cooling fan fly through them. Or someone poked a hold in them. Or they were involved in an accident. Or the end plastic tank finally gave up and cracked.

Let me try to make this easier for your to understand:

I've never seen a Behr radiator leak that wasn't damaged by some "miss-fortune" that was less than 20 years old. Never.

I'm sorry you aren't "getting" this....but the "track record" on all aluminum radiators is terrible....at the very best.....and they don't leak from the end tanks. They leak from the cheap, crappy cores.

The original Behr radiators never (at least I've never seen one) leak from the cores, without something or someone poking a hole in it. Never!

Now, you can go buy an all aluminum radiator and take your chance...it's a semi-free country....and someone has to support the economy. But a 2%-6% failure rate (whatever you want to believe), on a product that has only been around since 2009, is not very good, in my tiny little world.

If I needed or thought I was going to need a new radiator, I'd get my *** on the phone and buy one of the few remaining "economical" Behr units left in existence.

928 International has 4 left.....they had 12, last week.
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Old 06-13-2013, 05:33 PM
  #85  
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As a gambler, I disagree that a 2-6% failure rate is "terrible." I likes dem odds. I also don't use my car as a daily driver, so I guess I'm even more willing to take a risk with an aluminum rad.

In reality, if Behr is eventually going to stop production, wouldn't it be wise to come up with an alternative? Not trying to be a punk Greg. I respect your experience and track record on this. But it seems foolish to have only one option for a wear item. Albeit a 20 year wear item.

I will stop poking the bear now.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:00 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Courtshark View Post
As a gambler, I disagree that a 2-6% failure rate is "terrible." I likes dem odds.
Great, this isn't gambling.

Don't get into manufacturing if that's a good AFR to you.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:02 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by ROG100 View Post
PSD reservoirs
There are many more important parts than that. Old filter can be removed from reservoir and external aftermarket part added to line. Besides I still have three unused ones left. They will be worth $1K each in ten years when everyone is restoring GTS.
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Old 06-13-2013, 06:35 PM
  #88  
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My end tanks failed and the unit was clogged--original from 1991-2012. Still cooled as well as my brand new Behr. Temps are only the slightest bit lower than before.

This ad is true for radiators too:



I have the core if someone wants to contact me
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedtoys View Post
Great, this isn't gambling.

Don't get into manufacturing if that's a good AFR to you.
I'm not a manufacturer last time I checked. I'm a car enthusiast who understands there's risk in trying custom parts. 2-6% is low in custom-parts-risk in my opinion. If that's too much for you, don't buy it.
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Old 06-13-2013, 07:52 PM
  #90  
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I thought you are a lawyer.
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