blau928

Hi All,

I am in the early stages of calibrating the base map for my S4, and need some help with a few Motec specific items..

A: I need the CRIP value.. Crank Reference Index Position.. (If someone has the value handy, it saves me a bunch of time instead of me getting the degree wheel and pulling my spare motor out of the storage crate.. )


B: What coils are you using if running a CDI ignition system? Cayenne? AEM 2 wire Pencil Coils? Other BERU? Mercury Marine? Or? (I will be running an M&W Pro 18b CDI that has an integrated Motec IEX in the unit, same as a Motec CDI-8, in a different case..)


On another note, I am also curious about the base fuel and ignition tables for an S4 with stock cams from a sharkplotter/tuner, or another Motec/Autronic/Haltech/Megasquirt/aftermarket ecu if anyone wants to be generous and post a table of their setup... Just need The naturally Aspirated version to 100Kpa across the rpm band.. (I will be using a 40 X 20 table, but a 16X16 is fine for my analysis)

Granted, I can also get this from the dyno once the setup is built, but I would like to save some base calibration time and save the dyno for the positive pressure zone >100Kpa....

I can surely understand if no one wants to share what may be confidential.. Just thought to ask...

Thanks again,

Mike Simard

The criP should be about 60 or 65. You'll want to adjust that with a timing light eventually.

If you want to have CDI, you'll have to find specific coils for that, not the Cayenne etc.

Sharing setup files is not helpful, you really want to start with a clean sheet unless you have someone with an identical setup which is never the case. Just settle in and learn every setting one by one.

The M8 is unique and different from the others like M4 and M48, they seem to want to forget it for some reason but I don't know why, on paper it seems good.

Lizard928

It is 60 deg

Rob Edwards

Richard, for what it's worth, here is a stock LH map for a '90 GT

Will post a stock EZK map when I can find it.

blau928

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the note..

I see that AEM has CDI coils, and know that Mercury Marine has some as well that will work as Motec recommended them. I was curious if anyone had some experience they could share so I can have a sounding board....

I only want the CRIP, and to look at a "stock" base map under 100Kpa to see what the factory did. If someone has other maps, I just wanted to look for observation to see what they did, so I can ask myself why is it this way, etc... ( Just information.) As you mentioned, I plan to do most of the detailed stuff on the dyno bit by bit, and review all the other driving with datalogging as it is enabled in the ECU.

The M8 is a great unit, it is essentially an M880 running the old software which is written in DOS, unlike the new software which is windows friendly.. You have to program most of the cells one at a time, and it is a pain, unless you use the shortcut keys, and the quick Lambda function makes some stuff easier. However, it has lots of functions, including the ability to run traction control without the TCM box, although I may end up getting a TCM box and wiring the abs sensors to it..

The M880 is nice, but I wanted to spend funds on other things, so the M8 was good enough for me, especially since I got a deal on it...

Best,

blau928

Thanks Colin

blau928

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the post..

I am curious if the base map is the same as an S4, as the cams are different.. Although it may be interesting as I have a set of S3 cams in the garage.....

Quick question..

The left hand value, is that MAF voltage? I see the RPM scale, but am curious what the scale for load is, and also what the numbers in the cells are.... Duty cycle %, Injector pulse in MS, or some other value..


(I have never looked at a Sharktuner/plotter, so I don't know how the factory calibrated the data tables, whether it was against MAF voltage for load, or a mixed value for MAF voltage and TPS, and added fuel based on % duty cycle, or in milliseconds of open time including the ramp up time and closing time of the injectors...)

Hopefully that's not too much technically boring stuff... If you find the spark map, I'd be interested in looking at it as well just to see..


Thanks again,

Lizard928

Richard,

The column on the left is MAF voltage (map is inverted from most systems).

You can use a stock S4 ign map should you so choose, but it could use a lot of work. Best to use it as a starting point as it needs lots of work to say the least.....

The cayenne coils are tricky to get working so avoid those. If you dont mind dumb coils there are lots of OK options.

But my suggestion is to completely forget about the stock fuel map 110%, and just start from scratch. Trust me on this, it is WAY easier.

GregBBRD

But isn't this just a correction map and not the actual "base" map?

Lizard928

ding ding ding. Yup...... plus this is MAF, not MAP so the map will be totally different.

blau928

I wonder if anyone has flow tested a MAF and recorded the voltage output corresponding to airflow..

Like in the table shown, X-axis Voltage, but Y-axis showing CFM, or #/min or KG/min... (With temperature at the time of the test...)

If it has been done, then the calculation can be made from the MAF voltage values and airflow to the MAP values in Kpa. Not a very difficult conversion if the data is available..

It would be std temp correction for density, and calculate the weight of the air in the CFM/#-min/Kg-min and then do a chart of the voltage to the Kpa...

I have a feeling I am boring everyone again... Anyway, please feel free to comment if you have the measurements and are willing to share..

Thanks,

ptuomov

https://rennlist.com/forums/10025417-post3.html

BC

I know you had those issues with the cayenne coils and the megasquirt, if I recall correctly. They are very sensitive to falling edge voltage and for that same reason, sensitive to any noise.

I will be using them with an adaptronic, and hopefully with the additional tools available on that unit, it will work. They are smart coils, so they should simply react properly to a falling signal.

Here is the wiring:



Basically the final end-all statement on these coils is:

Coil "trigged", when INPUT voltage is over 2,5V.
- Input voltage 2,5 - 6V, > Input CURRENT keeps the same ( about 13mA ).
- Shutdown timer stop coil charging without spark if Dwell-time is too long (over 15ms).

And a diagram:

https://plus.google.com/photos/10605...19169295752360

Mike Simard

Brendan reminded me of the Cayenne coils.
I couldn't get them to work with Motec and sent them one for bench testing and they concluded that they are not usable with the Motec ignition expander.
They should be fine with other ECUs in theory but there's something about the Motec IE that's just not compatible.

Lizard928

On the Cayenne units.
The reason MoTec cannot be used to control them is dwell settings.
You need to have a fixed dwell of 1.7ms anything over 2ms and they turn off.

Also you need a minimum current of 18mA in the signal. Most logic level outputs are to trigger igbt igniters and don't have the required voltage or current to drive them. So I end up having to use a different circuit to drive them.
I was able to use pull-up resistors on the MS brain to fire them. But they are VERY sensitive to low levels.