Newest Project - Lower Intake Manifold for Fabricated S4 Intakes
10-21-2013, 01:14 AM
#76
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I so wish these would work for what I'm doing....it would make my life so much easier!
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greg brown
714 879 9072
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Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
10-21-2013, 11:03 AM
#78
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Greg - thanks for the kind words.
I will try and take some pictures tonight, but its not easy to demonstrate as my test part is clear plexi.
On my way out the door today, I grabbed an intake manifold off the shelf, and lined up the test flange with its bolt centers.... HUGE discrepancy there. Didnt have chance to measure it, but looked like almost 1/8" off. The port in the intake is "deeper" (the edge farthest away from the injector bung), almost like the pattern for the port was offset backwards for some reason. That absolutely has to kill the velocity and do all sort of bizarre things to flow as it exposes the head flange creating a shelf.
As Greg demonstrated at Sharktoberfest this past weekend, I think there really is a lot of improvement on the table to be had with better intake manifold design.
Moral of the story, if you are doing any head work, and planning on running the stock intake, do yourself a favor take the time to gasket match both the head and manifold.
I will try and take some pictures tonight, but its not easy to demonstrate as my test part is clear plexi.
On my way out the door today, I grabbed an intake manifold off the shelf, and lined up the test flange with its bolt centers.... HUGE discrepancy there. Didnt have chance to measure it, but looked like almost 1/8" off. The port in the intake is "deeper" (the edge farthest away from the injector bung), almost like the pattern for the port was offset backwards for some reason. That absolutely has to kill the velocity and do all sort of bizarre things to flow as it exposes the head flange creating a shelf.
As Greg demonstrated at Sharktoberfest this past weekend, I think there really is a lot of improvement on the table to be had with better intake manifold design.
Moral of the story, if you are doing any head work, and planning on running the stock intake, do yourself a favor take the time to gasket match both the head and manifold.
10-21-2013, 11:05 AM
#79
@jfrahm_ 968 has big ports.
10-24-2013, 02:36 PM
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Hey Hans... just a bump to put this up on the top of the list. I really want a set of these, so if there is anything else we can do to get this pushed forward, let us know.
10-24-2013, 02:54 PM
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I plan to do an intake refresh soon, and I'm not opposed to changing the stock configuration. Someone posted this:
http://performancedesignllc.com/?page_id=247
which I think would be interesting, but would it even work?
I would be more interested in what you're creating if I knew what options were available for the end result (intake, throttle body, etc).
I can't be the only one in this situation, maybe providing some end result examples or possibilities might drum up interest?
It's also entirely possible that the fact that I don't know what the end result would be places this out of my league...
http://performancedesignllc.com/?page_id=247
which I think would be interesting, but would it even work?
I would be more interested in what you're creating if I knew what options were available for the end result (intake, throttle body, etc).
I can't be the only one in this situation, maybe providing some end result examples or possibilities might drum up interest?
It's also entirely possible that the fact that I don't know what the end result would be places this out of my league...
10-24-2013, 02:58 PM
#82
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I just got the Ford Cobra injectors in, which I just wanted to verify had the exact same dimensions as my model. I really think these will be the best injector for our needs... unless someone wants to shell out the ~$190/piece price for the Bosch Motorsport version of the injector.
I still dont have enough commitments yet to green-light the casting, so spending some time getting the fuel rail situation sorted out, so I can cast in bosses when the time comes.
I should have access to our corporate 3D printer the week after I get back from Third Coast, so will print some small test sections to verify injector and rail clearances, and port fit.
If I get enough commitments to justify the casting, I will send out the whole flange assembly for a full size print (my printer is too small at 8x8x6 to make the model). This will be available for inspection by any qualified potential "volume" purchaser to try and get some more of these pre-sold.
I have some exciting things coming shortly as far as fuel rails go. Working on a unique OE style injector clamping plate, integrated fuel dampers and regulator to significantly reduce plumbing complexity and junctions. Less threaded connections and hoses means less of a chance for failure. All the connections to and at the rails will have o-rings in favor of tapered interfaces. There will be no aftermarket components, all Bosch OE parts that are readily available over the counter. So, if you happen to be driving to a national event, and your fuel pressure regulator fails, you should be able to walk into the local auto part store, get another one, and replace it without any tools in less than 5 minutes. Additionally, regulators are available in a number of different pressures, all are 1:1 referenced using the vacuum port, all have modern materials compatible with current fuel additives, and there are drop-in adjustable regulator elements for any custom application.
I am working on drawings this afternoon, but they probably wont be ready to share until next week. I am waiting on a couple things. I am also looking at having a custom fuel pressure sender tooled as part of this project.
I will start a dedicated fuel rail project thread as soon as the drawings are ready.
Thanks,
Hans
I still dont have enough commitments yet to green-light the casting, so spending some time getting the fuel rail situation sorted out, so I can cast in bosses when the time comes.
I should have access to our corporate 3D printer the week after I get back from Third Coast, so will print some small test sections to verify injector and rail clearances, and port fit.
If I get enough commitments to justify the casting, I will send out the whole flange assembly for a full size print (my printer is too small at 8x8x6 to make the model). This will be available for inspection by any qualified potential "volume" purchaser to try and get some more of these pre-sold.
I have some exciting things coming shortly as far as fuel rails go. Working on a unique OE style injector clamping plate, integrated fuel dampers and regulator to significantly reduce plumbing complexity and junctions. Less threaded connections and hoses means less of a chance for failure. All the connections to and at the rails will have o-rings in favor of tapered interfaces. There will be no aftermarket components, all Bosch OE parts that are readily available over the counter. So, if you happen to be driving to a national event, and your fuel pressure regulator fails, you should be able to walk into the local auto part store, get another one, and replace it without any tools in less than 5 minutes. Additionally, regulators are available in a number of different pressures, all are 1:1 referenced using the vacuum port, all have modern materials compatible with current fuel additives, and there are drop-in adjustable regulator elements for any custom application.
I am working on drawings this afternoon, but they probably wont be ready to share until next week. I am waiting on a couple things. I am also looking at having a custom fuel pressure sender tooled as part of this project.
I will start a dedicated fuel rail project thread as soon as the drawings are ready.
Thanks,
Hans
10-26-2013, 10:47 PM
#83
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I had an unexpected opportunity to use the 3D printer at the office on Friday before leaving for the weekend. I printed the the first port, and then half the second. It will allow for a test fit at the water bridge and rear coolant port covers. The physical cross-section port will show injector placement, and fit of the new manifold to the port in the head.
Attached is a picture of the start of the print. You can see the printer laying down the support raft for the part.
It will be ready to toss in the wash station Monday morning and should have some good pictures for you guys Monday afternoon.
Thanks
Hans
Attached is a picture of the start of the print. You can see the printer laying down the support raft for the part.
It will be ready to toss in the wash station Monday morning and should have some good pictures for you guys Monday afternoon.
Thanks
Hans
10-27-2013, 01:20 PM
#85
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Here are some pictures I intended to post last week.
The first two are of the flange surface of the new part cut from a clear acrylic. Its hard to see, as the fit is almost perfect. I made all the ports symmetrical, so there is slight deviations port to port, but you can see it is very close.
The last four pictures are the same acrylic flange laid over a factory intake manifold, centered on the bolt holes. You can see how well the factory located the injectors, but how the intake manifold port itself is offset inwards. There is a huge ledge there that the air would hit. I think its an amazing failure of quality control on the factory parts. That is a huge discrepancy.
I would be interested to see the effect of simply port matching an S4 engine.
The first two are of the flange surface of the new part cut from a clear acrylic. Its hard to see, as the fit is almost perfect. I made all the ports symmetrical, so there is slight deviations port to port, but you can see it is very close.
The last four pictures are the same acrylic flange laid over a factory intake manifold, centered on the bolt holes. You can see how well the factory located the injectors, but how the intake manifold port itself is offset inwards. There is a huge ledge there that the air would hit. I think its an amazing failure of quality control on the factory parts. That is a huge discrepancy.
I would be interested to see the effect of simply port matching an S4 engine.
10-27-2013, 09:00 PM
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I personally will try to incorporate an intercooler that will work for all the supercharger and turbo setups
I also believe you will see a lot of intakes that look like what on Mark Andersons race car
10-27-2013, 09:18 PM
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10-27-2013, 09:26 PM
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Here are some pictures I intended to post last week.
The first two are of the flange surface of the new part cut from a clear acrylic. Its hard to see, as the fit is almost perfect. I made all the ports symmetrical, so there is slight deviations port to port, but you can see it is very close.
The last four pictures are the same acrylic flange laid over a factory intake manifold, centered on the bolt holes. You can see how well the factory located the injectors, but how the intake manifold port itself is offset inwards. There is a huge ledge there that the air would hit. I think its an amazing failure of quality control on the factory parts. That is a huge discrepancy.
I would be interested to see the effect of simply port matching an S4 engine.
The first two are of the flange surface of the new part cut from a clear acrylic. Its hard to see, as the fit is almost perfect. I made all the ports symmetrical, so there is slight deviations port to port, but you can see it is very close.
The last four pictures are the same acrylic flange laid over a factory intake manifold, centered on the bolt holes. You can see how well the factory located the injectors, but how the intake manifold port itself is offset inwards. There is a huge ledge there that the air would hit. I think its an amazing failure of quality control on the factory parts. That is a huge discrepancy.
I would be interested to see the effect of simply port matching an S4 engine.
I've tried this, several times, on several different size engines.
Your time is better spent flipping matches into a pool of water.....
10-27-2013, 10:05 PM
#90
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Greg, you are probably right, I am jut surprised that the port matching is so extremely poor. There are likely lots of other issue which have a larger effect, but its just startling to me when compared to the quality of materials and tolerances elsewhere in the engine. I have heard that there was closer attention to port matching on the GT and CS engines.... have you seen anything to support that? Just curious.