AO

Fixed it for you...

Carl Fausett

It can. We printed ours in Glass-Filled Nylon and it tested it at over 200 deg F and 20 psi of boost. Over a thousand cycles. Now been on the race car for 4 years of racing without any issues.

The complete story and the testing thread is here:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...32v-928-a.html

hans14914

As Carl mentions, 3D printing with the proper equipment is possible. The part cost is just higher than I would like at this point in time. If someone needed a composite lower, I would reccomend looking at Carl's part if the trajectory is compatible with their project. However, if someone needed a different entry angle, I would be happy to work with them on a custom basis.

I am planning the first batch of aluminum lowers to sell for $500/pair. Custom composite manifold components would be closer in price to the 928MS part, as my cost for printing in these materials is considerably higher than the casting and machining even with amortizing the initial expense of the tooling. 3D printings is a great thing, but its still not as cost effective as other methods for "production" yet. My internal cost for printing on the ABS printer (not effective in this application) is a little more than $6/in^3 in raw materials, and the printer itself cost a bit over $20k as its a proffesional unit with heated build chamber and reasonably tight tolerances. Machine will last about 2000hours before an overhaul, and printing something like that manifold I posted took about 4.5 hours... so you can see how it adds up very quickly.

I was quoted around $375/part to have a complete flange printed using FDM (again not useable under the hood). SLS is the only method I would use for a component like this, and it would be likely twice the cost as FDM.

The day is coming, and sooner than we think. Patents expire on some key SLS technology next year, so expect to see some rapid developments in that area soon.

9x8

In Soviet Russia, shipping pays for you!

hans14914

Last week was PRI (fortunately for me, it merged with IMIS and was back in Indianapolis this year). I spent over 20 hours at the show, talking to manufactures trying to line up some good partners for many of the designs I have laying around here just waiting for a good manufacturing fit (we have the most difficult requirement - low volume and low price).

I recieved several really good references, and one of them has paid off. There is actually a local shop with a 5-axis mill that is willing to do shortish runs of the flange design. It requires no-up front tooling costs for me, and while the piece price is higher than casting, it would be much better quality and far easier to weld.

I had him quote me 20 sets, and the number was very fair, so going back to see if he will quote less (didnt want to scare him off only asking for 10 pieces to start).

Can I get a quick raise of hands, who is still interested, and would you rather have a cast part from an Asian foundry, or a billet part from an American machinist. Pricing would increase but as it is right now, I think casting costs could be contained between $550 and $600 per set and machined parts would be in the $850-$950 range. If people were interested, I could do a matching run of fuel rails and mounting hardware to match either manufacturing method.

Thanks
Hans

BC

Did you talk to Erik Hans? We are back at the basic costs Todd found for his flanges.

victor25

Hans, why cant they just be made out of High temp plastics like all the new cars are?

Speedtoys

How you plan to weld to it?

Its not a whole solution, its a base for "your own" full solution.

dprantl

Bolt-on with gaskets? Kinda like an AMG:




Dan
'91 928GT S/C 475hp/460lb.ft

hans14914

Dan

Very similar to the AMG lower manifold, just no flange. It can be used exactly like it though by cutting 45 degree bends in half to 22.5, then it will turn directly upward (perpendicular to the ground) for use in a supercharger installation like the AMG system. I have some renderings I can post of a configuration like that using the HPS supercharger.

Like many other good projects, this will just have to wait until there are enough people to warrant the significant upfront costs for casting tooling, or that are interested enough to pay the higher price for machines parts in low volume.

I am going to talk to the 5-axis shop here in town on Monday, and see if I can get him to make a short run just for me. Then I will make a couple test manifolds to show the potential of the pieces.

If anyone else has access to a 5-axis shop, who thinks they can get better pricing, let me know.

Thanks
Hans

victor25

who says you have to weld to it??? Most modern vehicles use epoxy for bonding surfaces like this Cayenne intake.
Personally I would love to just make an adapter plate and mount something like this

928mac

That would be sweet Victor.

Hans my cyl head looked worse then yours, thats why I ported it to the gaskets and then gasket matched the intake as well.
Just check as I thought I had before and after pictures, looks like just after the porting.

hans14914

This project is back from the dead. Funds wont allow for casting, so I wont be able to offer the "cheap" flanges I originally envisioned, but I will be able to offer affordable flanges machined from 6061. I have profiles available for 2"OD-11g, 2"OD-16g, 2.25"OD-11g, and 2.25"OD-16g. First batch will be the 2"-11g as it will allow for easy integration with a number of aftermarket parts. I can offer any of the other profiles if I receive an order for 5-sets.

Here is one configuration (runners not yet optimized in length, but all the difficult geometry angles are solved) using off the shelf bends. The blue plane is a worse-case scenario hood line with brand new motor mounts based on the constraint of the original intake manifold.

http://cloudviewer.spaceclaim.com/e8...8a4c51074.html

I am placing a deposit for the tooling and programming, and will get an evaluation set in before accepting orders, but it will be fairly simple to make any number of intake configurations.

kaelix

Hans,
What are you personal plans for this i.e. what final solution do you have in mind?

hans14914

I *may* offer one type of manifold, just to show what you can do with the lower intake "lego". The plan is to offer flanges so people can make a manifold appropriate for their projects. Intake tuning is highly dependent on a number of variables. Thus an optimized intake for an 87 auto would be different than a 90 GT. Similar - absolutely, but not exact. This project is designed to be a fabrication aid and not a complete bolt-on part.