Hatch release search??
04-13-2013, 03:11 PM
#1
Racer
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Location: Sussex, WI
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Hatch release search??
Searchuing subject to try and fix mine today. Apparently there's a wire tie fix and I want to try it. Why does the site say "no matches found" when I've searched for "hatch release"? I'm certain I've gotten 50 hits before...
ANy help with pics is appreciated.
B
ANy help with pics is appreciated.
B
04-13-2013, 03:58 PM
#3
Bill, do you have a new hatch insert? If so, adjust the motor assembly up/down, the lower receiver back and forth until it works. Sometimes the upper latch (white part) will wear so adjustments won't work, but it's worth trying.
The tie fix sorta works sometimes, but all you are doing is wrapping a couple of small cable ties around the lower mechanism that moves/rotates.
BTW, search is not working right now.
The tie fix sorta works sometimes, but all you are doing is wrapping a couple of small cable ties around the lower mechanism that moves/rotates.
BTW, search is not working right now.
04-13-2013, 07:45 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
The first one to do this was porken iirc. Try searching for threads made by him.
However, I had a local fellow who has a new insert, and motor adjusted properly and it still wouldnt release. I added two heavy duty zap straps and BAM worked like a charm.
However, I had a local fellow who has a new insert, and motor adjusted properly and it still wouldnt release. I added two heavy duty zap straps and BAM worked like a charm.
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04-14-2013, 09:58 PM
#9
Don't forget that the if the latching tongue is stressed in the aft direction it will fracture due to its light fabrication, ie there is a very thin section of the casting on the forward side of the tongue that will crack.
Before fitting the zip ties to the cam ensure that the plastic insert is in good condition and then the location of the female section of the mechanism and the male section should be centred and there is only forward force from the ribbed aft section of the plastic insert.
To do this loosen off the 4 allen headed set screws holding the hatch male tongue and the female receptical in the car body. When this is done just nip up the the 4 allen headed set screws so when the hatch is closed the mechanism will centre itself correctly with force being in the forward direction on the hatch male tongue. Open the hatch with the key and tighten the set screws.
Now adjust the electric motor attached to the crank of the latch release mechanism, so that the it just touches the release latch. Tighten set bolts and check for electrical operation.
If the mechanism does not release via the electrical switch, you can fit the zip ties the the cam or buy a new insert.
If you wish get some more information, I wrote an installation and set up procedure many years ago that may be helpful. Simply look at the old post that I have written.
Before fitting the zip ties to the cam ensure that the plastic insert is in good condition and then the location of the female section of the mechanism and the male section should be centred and there is only forward force from the ribbed aft section of the plastic insert.
To do this loosen off the 4 allen headed set screws holding the hatch male tongue and the female receptical in the car body. When this is done just nip up the the 4 allen headed set screws so when the hatch is closed the mechanism will centre itself correctly with force being in the forward direction on the hatch male tongue. Open the hatch with the key and tighten the set screws.
Now adjust the electric motor attached to the crank of the latch release mechanism, so that the it just touches the release latch. Tighten set bolts and check for electrical operation.
If the mechanism does not release via the electrical switch, you can fit the zip ties the the cam or buy a new insert.
If you wish get some more information, I wrote an installation and set up procedure many years ago that may be helpful. Simply look at the old post that I have written.
04-16-2013, 12:37 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Bill, I found a copy of a word document version of some really great rear hatch latch adjustment instructions from Tails in my computer. Thanks, Tails!!
Shawn,
If the new hatch lock mechanism is installed correctly you should be able to close the hatch without slamming, the key unlock and the cam unlock mechanism should work correctly, the hatch should be correclty in line with the gaps between the body and the hatch even on all sides and the hatch should not make any rattling or squeeking noises nor come unlatched when driving.
The following is a systematic method of installing a new latching mechanism or adjusting a old one and it can be undertaken without assistance.
When adjusting the closed position of the hatch, the bumpers should be fully screwed in initially and the side guides should be released or removed.
To save excessive work in adjusting the latching mechanism by opening and closing the hatch I recommend that the initial work be undertaken with the hatch fully opened.
The latching mechanism should be tested for fit with the receiver (female) mechanism removed from the body of the car and hand latched to the male mechanism by pushing it onto the upper mechanism by hand.
This procedure allows the electric operated cam to be held out of the way by the pushrod, so that it does on have any influence on the key operated latching mechanism whilst you check its correct operation and latching to the female mechanism.
If it is too hard to get it the key operated mechanism to latch there are 2 possible reasons reasons,
1. the new rubber insert is too big or if it is an old shimmed out insert is used, the shim could be too thick, and
2. the the key operated nylon latch is too worn or it fulcrum pin is worn causing the nylon latch not to fully catch under the receivers fixed latch receiver.
As you are using a new upper and lower hatch locking mechanism all should be OK, but as previously advised by Roger in another post not all new parts function correctly. By undertaking this procedure you can check all the key latching mechanism as well at the correct fit of rubber insert and its clearance.
If the female section of the latch is too snug on the male section you may have to remove some of the ribs thichness off the aft section of the insert, so that you get the correct insertion depth for the correct latching.
If this hand testing key operation is OK, as it should be with the new upper and lower hatch mechanisms, you can now test the cam operation release by hand by pulling down on the push rod to get the cam to release the nylon latch.
If the cam does not push the the latch sufficient to release then you have a problem with the new items.
One fix for this has been described to get a greater arc of influence by the cam is by fitting a couple of nylon ties around the cam. Once you have the female part latching and unlatching correctly you can now again test the key operated unlocking mechanism thereby ensuring that the both unlocking system work satisfactorily, and they are not too stiff and the lower female receiver should "pop off" the upper tongue into you hand. When you release the latch by key or cam be sure you catch the receiver as it will really "pop" off the male section due to the spring loaded nylon piston in the receiver.
If the key is too stiff then more silicone spray lubrication maybe required onto and around the key mechanism. If it still does not "pop off" the male section I have found that sometimes the rubber insert can jam the lower receiver's nylon spring loaded piston release mechanism.
If this is the case then some "relief" maybe need to be made at the bottom of the aft inner section of the rubber insert to give clearance.
By undertaking these tests, by hand, you individually test each system and can really see and feel whether the total system is operating as designed, with out the PITA of shutting and opening the hatch lid and working blind.
Now fit the lower receiver into the car without any shims under the flange. I would suggest just nippin up the 4 allen headed set bolts, so that there is a small amount of friction present, which allows the male and female sections to self align when the hatch is closed and remain in their alligned position.
Now open the hatch using the key and tighten the set bolts. When fitting the female mechanism to the body it is imperative that no aft pressure is applied to the upper male mechanism via the lower mechanism being too far in the aft position, otherwise you could crack the sides of the tongue of the male mechanism. All the pressure on the male section should be applied by the ribbed aft section of the female receptical.
One suggested fix for assisting the unlocking cam alignment is to a shim under the after side of the flange of the male tongue to bring the nylon unlocking piece more under the arc of influence of the electrical operated unlocking cam. This fix will work initially however, there will be too much aft force applied to the male mechanism with the result of cracking the sides sections. I have developed a repair for these cracks, but it is still under test in my car.
You can now test the latching of the hatch in situ to see whether it catches without the need to slam the hatch closed. If it closes correctly and can be opened by the key easily it should "pop up" a few millimetres under pressure of the receiver spring. If it does not "pot up"then the receiver's spring loaded nylon piece may be jamming and need some lubrication or added clearance.
When the hatch is locking and unlocking correctly, you can now adjust the bumpers to set the hatch edges to align with the body to get an even gap between the hatch and the trunk body. Adjustment should be by small increments otherwise you may jam the key operated latch into the lock position, as the force to close the hatch increase the more you adjust the bumpers. This adjustment is a trade off in alignment and closing force required.
If the gap is too small between the after edge of the hatch and the body after adjustment of the bumper, then full width shims can be added under the flange of the female receptical to get the gap acceptable. If shimming is undertaken then you will have to readjust the bumpers.
When you are happy with the closing force, alignment and the pressure require to turn the key to open the hatch, you then adjust the position of the motor operated opening cam as per the WSM. When operated by the pull switches it should "pop" the hatch up a few millimetres (as previously described) and when the switch is release the electric motor should continue to operate to park it in the correct position.
If the hatch does not "pop" the hatch after all of the above then the alignment of the two hatch locking mechanisms is slightly out and should be again re-aligned again as described above by just pinching up the set bolts, closing the hatch and then opening the hatch and fully torquing up the set bolts.
When all of the aboce is working correctly you can now adjust the two side guides to ensure the hatch does on move from side to side when the car is driven.
Now you should now have a fully operating hatch locking and unlocking system as designed.
Tails 1990 928 S4 Auto
Shawn,
If the new hatch lock mechanism is installed correctly you should be able to close the hatch without slamming, the key unlock and the cam unlock mechanism should work correctly, the hatch should be correclty in line with the gaps between the body and the hatch even on all sides and the hatch should not make any rattling or squeeking noises nor come unlatched when driving.
The following is a systematic method of installing a new latching mechanism or adjusting a old one and it can be undertaken without assistance.
When adjusting the closed position of the hatch, the bumpers should be fully screwed in initially and the side guides should be released or removed.
To save excessive work in adjusting the latching mechanism by opening and closing the hatch I recommend that the initial work be undertaken with the hatch fully opened.
The latching mechanism should be tested for fit with the receiver (female) mechanism removed from the body of the car and hand latched to the male mechanism by pushing it onto the upper mechanism by hand.
This procedure allows the electric operated cam to be held out of the way by the pushrod, so that it does on have any influence on the key operated latching mechanism whilst you check its correct operation and latching to the female mechanism.
If it is too hard to get it the key operated mechanism to latch there are 2 possible reasons reasons,
1. the new rubber insert is too big or if it is an old shimmed out insert is used, the shim could be too thick, and
2. the the key operated nylon latch is too worn or it fulcrum pin is worn causing the nylon latch not to fully catch under the receivers fixed latch receiver.
As you are using a new upper and lower hatch locking mechanism all should be OK, but as previously advised by Roger in another post not all new parts function correctly. By undertaking this procedure you can check all the key latching mechanism as well at the correct fit of rubber insert and its clearance.
If the female section of the latch is too snug on the male section you may have to remove some of the ribs thichness off the aft section of the insert, so that you get the correct insertion depth for the correct latching.
If this hand testing key operation is OK, as it should be with the new upper and lower hatch mechanisms, you can now test the cam operation release by hand by pulling down on the push rod to get the cam to release the nylon latch.
If the cam does not push the the latch sufficient to release then you have a problem with the new items.
One fix for this has been described to get a greater arc of influence by the cam is by fitting a couple of nylon ties around the cam. Once you have the female part latching and unlatching correctly you can now again test the key operated unlocking mechanism thereby ensuring that the both unlocking system work satisfactorily, and they are not too stiff and the lower female receiver should "pop off" the upper tongue into you hand. When you release the latch by key or cam be sure you catch the receiver as it will really "pop" off the male section due to the spring loaded nylon piston in the receiver.
If the key is too stiff then more silicone spray lubrication maybe required onto and around the key mechanism. If it still does not "pop off" the male section I have found that sometimes the rubber insert can jam the lower receiver's nylon spring loaded piston release mechanism.
If this is the case then some "relief" maybe need to be made at the bottom of the aft inner section of the rubber insert to give clearance.
By undertaking these tests, by hand, you individually test each system and can really see and feel whether the total system is operating as designed, with out the PITA of shutting and opening the hatch lid and working blind.
Now fit the lower receiver into the car without any shims under the flange. I would suggest just nippin up the 4 allen headed set bolts, so that there is a small amount of friction present, which allows the male and female sections to self align when the hatch is closed and remain in their alligned position.
Now open the hatch using the key and tighten the set bolts. When fitting the female mechanism to the body it is imperative that no aft pressure is applied to the upper male mechanism via the lower mechanism being too far in the aft position, otherwise you could crack the sides of the tongue of the male mechanism. All the pressure on the male section should be applied by the ribbed aft section of the female receptical.
One suggested fix for assisting the unlocking cam alignment is to a shim under the after side of the flange of the male tongue to bring the nylon unlocking piece more under the arc of influence of the electrical operated unlocking cam. This fix will work initially however, there will be too much aft force applied to the male mechanism with the result of cracking the sides sections. I have developed a repair for these cracks, but it is still under test in my car.
You can now test the latching of the hatch in situ to see whether it catches without the need to slam the hatch closed. If it closes correctly and can be opened by the key easily it should "pop up" a few millimetres under pressure of the receiver spring. If it does not "pot up"then the receiver's spring loaded nylon piece may be jamming and need some lubrication or added clearance.
When the hatch is locking and unlocking correctly, you can now adjust the bumpers to set the hatch edges to align with the body to get an even gap between the hatch and the trunk body. Adjustment should be by small increments otherwise you may jam the key operated latch into the lock position, as the force to close the hatch increase the more you adjust the bumpers. This adjustment is a trade off in alignment and closing force required.
If the gap is too small between the after edge of the hatch and the body after adjustment of the bumper, then full width shims can be added under the flange of the female receptical to get the gap acceptable. If shimming is undertaken then you will have to readjust the bumpers.
When you are happy with the closing force, alignment and the pressure require to turn the key to open the hatch, you then adjust the position of the motor operated opening cam as per the WSM. When operated by the pull switches it should "pop" the hatch up a few millimetres (as previously described) and when the switch is release the electric motor should continue to operate to park it in the correct position.
If the hatch does not "pop" the hatch after all of the above then the alignment of the two hatch locking mechanisms is slightly out and should be again re-aligned again as described above by just pinching up the set bolts, closing the hatch and then opening the hatch and fully torquing up the set bolts.
When all of the aboce is working correctly you can now adjust the two side guides to ensure the hatch does on move from side to side when the car is driven.
Now you should now have a fully operating hatch locking and unlocking system as designed.
Tails 1990 928 S4 Auto
04-18-2013, 10:59 PM
#12
Racer
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Sussex, WI
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Have a new latch insert...and the zip ties worked like a charm...figures the damn search function fails on the day I plugged in to fix it. Nonetheless...new oil, filter, flex plate release, and zip ties...ready for Debuque!
