Rotrex Supercharger thread
09-24-2012, 02:05 PM
#32
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coming soon... I will post before and after dyno runs of a stage 1 on a completely stock 89 s4 auto. This will be done at a different dyno that is hopefull calibrated correctly and give lots of other information like boost levels and o2 readings
09-24-2012, 02:28 PM
#33
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Victor, I think your kit is clever and hope these new dyno runs will settle a lot of if not all of the controversy. Do the runs in 3rd, Bowden disconnected, kickdown switch unplugged.
09-24-2012, 03:49 PM
#34
Nordschleife Master
Victor,
Thank you for doing this. It will help to put everyone at ease on this information.
In the dynosheet please get the operator to include boost pressure, along with atmo conditions.
Thank you for doing this. It will help to put everyone at ease on this information.
In the dynosheet please get the operator to include boost pressure, along with atmo conditions.
09-24-2012, 05:10 PM
#37
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If that's the case then I would suggest you do three runs Victor - stock before, Rotrex with base (supplied) PEMs and finally Rotrex with Sharktuning. All three can be done one after the other without unstrapping the car.
I think it's really important to include a run with only the supplied PEMs because as much as you stress and tell people that they need to sharktune the car after the install there will still be those that don't, won't or can't. This will give everyone a much clearer picture of what to expect and hopefully the additional hp/tq gain from more sharktuning will be motivation to do it.
I think it's really important to include a run with only the supplied PEMs because as much as you stress and tell people that they need to sharktune the car after the install there will still be those that don't, won't or can't. This will give everyone a much clearer picture of what to expect and hopefully the additional hp/tq gain from more sharktuning will be motivation to do it.
09-24-2012, 05:19 PM
#38
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I dont think the "supplied PEMs" is useful. They are VERY generous towards safety, not power.
Every car will be different, especially in exhaust mods.
It should be understood that sharktuning is a requirement...really.
Every car will be different, especially in exhaust mods.
It should be understood that sharktuning is a requirement...really.
09-24-2012, 05:39 PM
#39
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I'm going to make this short and sweet.
Because I questioned the claims that this $5,000 kit would make 481rwhp on the "other thread" about this kit....I got absolutely hammered, as being the villian.
Yeah, and I'm pissed about it!
I'm sure not the one making the claims. And I'd I'd sure like to have anyone's money that wants to run one of these engines against a 380rwhp stroker....which is my reality. Bring it on! Bring on the 481rwhp one, with the smaller pulley....I don't believe this, either! Screw dyno charts.
Show me. Take my money!
I'll go a step further.....I don't think that any $5,000 Supercharger kit is going to make anywhere near 450 crank horsepower on an otherwise stock 928 engine...on an accurate dyno!
People are going to need exhaust, Sharktuning, and a direct connection to God, to get anywhere near these results.
6 lbs of boost on a stock 5.0 928 engine. Do the math!
Please post reality. I've got nothing to say when people are truthful!
900hp that can't go over 205mph....and you guys lap that crap up like kittens eating milk, while I'm screaming "bull****" at the top of my lungs! That thing hasn't made 600hp, on the very best day it's ever had!
And a stock engine doesn't make anywhere near 300rwhp on any "real" dyno, BTW!
A good running, stock 928, with an automatic transmision, puts 265rwhp to the ground, on a really accurate Dynojet! I've dynoed more of these things, on really accurate dynos, that all of you put together have done (or from the "results" you guys get, maybe any of you.) You can call that "ego", or you can call that reality. The majority of people selling dyno time inflate the real results to make people happy! Look how many of you believe all this crap about how much power these engines make! For some reason....it makes you feel better to have big horsepower numbers. That's what these guys are selling!
330hp (and very few stock engines make that kind of power) less a 20% loss through the automatic makes 264hp!!!!
Any more than that and you're kidding yourselves.
Because I questioned the claims that this $5,000 kit would make 481rwhp on the "other thread" about this kit....I got absolutely hammered, as being the villian.
Yeah, and I'm pissed about it!
I'm sure not the one making the claims. And I'd I'd sure like to have anyone's money that wants to run one of these engines against a 380rwhp stroker....which is my reality. Bring it on! Bring on the 481rwhp one, with the smaller pulley....I don't believe this, either! Screw dyno charts.
Show me. Take my money!
I'll go a step further.....I don't think that any $5,000 Supercharger kit is going to make anywhere near 450 crank horsepower on an otherwise stock 928 engine...on an accurate dyno!
People are going to need exhaust, Sharktuning, and a direct connection to God, to get anywhere near these results.
6 lbs of boost on a stock 5.0 928 engine. Do the math!
Please post reality. I've got nothing to say when people are truthful!
900hp that can't go over 205mph....and you guys lap that crap up like kittens eating milk, while I'm screaming "bull****" at the top of my lungs! That thing hasn't made 600hp, on the very best day it's ever had!
And a stock engine doesn't make anywhere near 300rwhp on any "real" dyno, BTW!
A good running, stock 928, with an automatic transmision, puts 265rwhp to the ground, on a really accurate Dynojet! I've dynoed more of these things, on really accurate dynos, that all of you put together have done (or from the "results" you guys get, maybe any of you.) You can call that "ego", or you can call that reality. The majority of people selling dyno time inflate the real results to make people happy! Look how many of you believe all this crap about how much power these engines make! For some reason....it makes you feel better to have big horsepower numbers. That's what these guys are selling!
330hp (and very few stock engines make that kind of power) less a 20% loss through the automatic makes 264hp!!!!
Any more than that and you're kidding yourselves.
__________________
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Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
Last edited by GregBBRD; 09-24-2012 at 06:01 PM.
09-24-2012, 05:51 PM
#40
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I understand and I certainly agree it should be sharktuned after install - but there are and will be those who don't have access to a sharktuner within 100s of miles nor can they afford an additional $800 to buy their own. Are they out of luck in purchasing this? Or what if they can't afford to pay someone to sharktune their car? If the supplied PEMs will work, albeit no where near as good as it could be, then it sure seems logical to me that a dyno run should be shown for it as well - especially since it would take minimal effort/expense to produce it right along with the others. We read threads all the time of someone who has done some sort of mod and they need/want to sharktune but it seems to take forever to get it done. Just reality. I don't even think Sean has had the time to sharktune his yet. To me this is a no brainer - why wouldn't you type of thing...
09-24-2012, 06:09 PM
#41
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If that's the case then I would suggest you do three runs Victor - stock before, Rotrex with base (supplied) PEMs and finally Rotrex with Sharktuning. All three can be done one after the other without unstrapping the car.
I think it's really important to include a run with only the supplied PEMs because as much as you stress and tell people that they need to sharktune the car after the install there will still be those that don't, won't or can't. This will give everyone a much clearer picture of what to expect and hopefully the additional hp/tq gain from more sharktuning will be motivation to do it.
I think it's really important to include a run with only the supplied PEMs because as much as you stress and tell people that they need to sharktune the car after the install there will still be those that don't, won't or can't. This will give everyone a much clearer picture of what to expect and hopefully the additional hp/tq gain from more sharktuning will be motivation to do it.
That is a very good suggestion, but I don't think the Dyno guy will let me do all three on the same strap. I am quite good at installing the supercharger kits, but it will still take me a few hours, and I doubt he wants me in his shop that long. Plus I will be installing 36lb injectors and a new fuel line when I install the kit. That means there will be a slight fuel mess. As nice as that sounds it would be very difficult to pull off.
I do like your idea of a before and after shark tune though!! So what I will do when I come back for the after runs , is run the car with the delivered basic setup first, then fine tune while on the dyno and show that as a third run.
That being said... I have a feeling there will not be a huge difference as this case, as the car is completely stock. Unlike most of the other cars that now have our Rotrex kits on them, only one of them so far was stock!! Everyone so far has had some kind of modifications, but one. And that guy just put on an x pipe, cats, and exhaust LOL. So the dialing in I did for him when I installed the kit went to hell. it went way rich. I ended up shipping my laptop and sharktuner to him for a weekend so he coul dial it back in.
09-24-2012, 06:18 PM
#42
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I understand and I certainly agree it should be sharktuned after install - but there are and will be those who don't have access to a sharktuner within 100s of miles nor can they afford an additional $800 to buy their own. Are they out of luck in purchasing this? Or what if they can't afford to pay someone to sharktune their car? If the supplied PEMs will work, albeit no where near as good as it could be, then it sure seems logical to me that a dyno run should be shown for it as well - especially since it would take minimal effort/expense to produce it right along with the others. We read threads all the time of someone who has done some sort of mod and they need/want to sharktune but it seems to take forever to get it done. Just reality. I don't even think Sean has had the time to sharktune his yet. To me this is a no brainer - why wouldn't you type of thing...
First Roger has a shark tuner for rent, and would love to rent it out more. He has had very few requests on his rental program and definitely would like to see more.
Second the base tune will work well for a stock car, and it would not be hard for me to have multiple tunes available for people with modifications. I am sure as people like Sean, Jeff, and others dial in their cars they would have no problem sharing these maps. So as the maps begin to surface I should be able match something closer to the cars individual needs
Last edited by victor25; 09-24-2012 at 06:59 PM.
09-24-2012, 06:19 PM
#43
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IMHO, then this level of work is not for them.
$5000 kit, you can afford a ST..at this point, its almost a requirement, IMHO, even if just renting it. However, the knowledge of how to use it properly is not included in the box.
Under boost, what you can get away with starts to get pretty thin.