Fontana

Hello all,
I just purchased my dream car this past Mother's Day,(problems or not). I read all four pages of info you gentleman provided and found it to be very informative, thanks.
I live in Monroe, New York, 10950 which is about a half an hour away from West Point and an hour away from the Manhattan.
My 87' 928 S4 was driven from the first owners house to the second owner (about 25 miles) ran beautifully, was parked in his garage and was only started a few times. The first time over a period of 3 months, the car started with no problems. The second time after about six months, the car started with some hesitation and the third time after about a year, the car did not want to start, but would fire then die three seconds later. I just bought the car and was told that the Mass Air Meter was changed twice, the crank position sensor was changed and still no luck. The second owner told me that the next thing he would recommend me to change per his mechanic is the fuel pressure regulator.

I got the car home and did the following:
1. Drained the fuel tank not by dropping the tank, but by disconnecting the fuel filter, jumpering the fuel pump relay and let the pump drain the old fuel until it was spitting foam. Didn't want it to run too dry so I stopped there. Fuel was tarnished and smelled like something that came out of my old 67 GTO. Fuel pump cover did not come with car and fuel pump contacts were wet as it was raining the first day I started messing with it.
2 Changed the fuel filter (one replaced had a date of 12/22/89)
3. Changed the plugs
4. Changed the fuel pump relay
5. Checked all fuses
6. Put fresh gas in (93 octane with a 104 octane booster)
7. Replaced two cracked vacuum hoses
8. Found two vacuum hoses disconnected at the tree behind intake by firewall and resecured them
9. Removed both contacts on fuel pump and sanded both.

Got the car running to a point of a few twenty minute intervals but will not rev past 2-3000 mark without dying out completely.
Jumpered the fuel pump relay (30-87). Pump kicks right on. When doing so, I hear fuel running constant like a running faucet up in the engine bay (no leaks), but I smell fuel. Was thinking this could be a bad regulator allowing fuel to be dumping into the motor. After doing this, the car is very difficult to start and when it does it is with some starter fluid only. Puffs of white smoke will come out of the exhaust as if there is way too much fuel in the motor wanting to burn out.
When I disconnected the original fuel filter and jumpered the fuel pump relay to run the pump and drain the tank, small metal shavings were coming out in the drain pan which held the stale/ foul smelling old fuel.
Could I have a weak fuel pump? When I had it draining, it seemed to pour the fuel into the pan something equivelant to a kitchen faucet like pressure. It certainly was not trickling.
I don't hear the fuel pump on when I am running or cranking the car, only when I jumperer it.
Right now, I am thinking I have a weak fuel pump or and a bad regulator. I am also wondering if I have a bad Mass Air connector as it seems odd to me that the previous owner would have the Mass Air meter changed over a period of less than two years without fixing the problem. If I try to start the car with the fuel pump relay jumpered, it will only crank, but will not turn over. It seems there is way too much fuel not being regulated and the car is not happy at all when I do this...

(For whatever it's worth)
Car has 106,000 miles
Transmission has been rebuilt
Intake has been replaced
All new fuel lines in engine bay
There are no leaks under the car or by the injectors
Most of the time I tried to start the car, I had my work van running next to the rear jumping the Porsche's battery as I did not want to put all that strain on a battery which was sitting for nearly two years.
I will post pics soon. The car has been garage kept it's whole life. I am in contact with both previous owners. It has a clean Carfax and looks gorgeous. I can't wait to get it out there...If anyone lives around my area, I would welcome any help. I am very capable, but this is my first Porsche...
Thanks in advance,
Anthony Fontana
845 821 7250

John Speake

Welcome ! Run the fuelk pump jumpered for maybe 10sec, then undo the vac lines to the fuel dampers and regulator, check for any fuel in them.

Will the car only start with starter fluid into the intake ?

There is a fuel flow test you can make. Find the fuel reurn line on top of the fuel tank, under the carpet in the trunk, passenger side. Extend it safely into a container. Jump the FP for 30 seconds, you should collect 1350cc of fuel. In effect this is a fuel volume and pressure test.

Let us know what you find.

Fontana

Thanks for the quick response. I can usually get the car started after some tries without starter fluid, but if I keep trying or jump the relay it will require starter fluid.

mickster

Did you check that the vacuum lines aren't crossed and they are getting the right amount of vacuum?

Also when was the MAS replaced last?

The rich fuel (and no one knows more than John Speake) could be an LH issue, no?

Fontana

Bad...very bad. I went outside to start the car. Got it running with no starter fluid. Had it idling okay then I heard something in the back crumbling. It was the gas tank. It somehow pressurized and sucked itself in to a point where it was almost folded in half and I heard a strong vacuum inside so I slowly released the gas cap and the sound stopped. After that I heard a crackling under the passenger side floor and their was a fire underneath which went quickly into the cabins fuse panel...Not a good start. It took me a good 7-8 minutes to put the fire out. Not sure what to do at this point. This quickly changed from my dream to a possible parts car...

mickster

Oh F***.

First off glad you are okay. Make sure the fuel is all cleaned up underneath the car (likely culprit for the fire). The CE panel can be replaced-beast to do from all I have read...

Time to see who is around or decide if you want to flatbed to a shop...

Any Westchester/Rockland wrenches around??

Michael

dcrasta

Wow.. pics ?

BigAl1

That SUCKS! Disconnect the battery to prevent any melted/crossed wires from being a new fire source. Glad you got it put out.

John Speake

Really sorry to hear that. The fuel tank should be vented by a system that returns the fumes into the egine intake.

Carefully assess the damage around the CE panel. Is it confined to the panel itself (which is a plug in replacement) or does the damage extend to the cable forms that plug into it.

928 International sell very reasonably priced used spares for the 928.
http://www.928intl.com/about.htm

Don't despair !

Fontana

Motor and body was not affected at all. The fuse panel is fine but the first two lower connectors/wires took a hit as well as the bottom of the dash. I am wondering if there was a fuel leak after all and I didn't see it because it was burning off on the exhaust while the car was running (on the passenger side). I know these cars are prone to fires so I made sure I had my hose right next to the car. Thank God I did. The flames got strong real quick

FLYVMO

First of all, good to hear you did not get hurt, and it sounds like the car is more than salvageable. Very sorry that you had to experience this with your new purchase.

But it bears repeating, the 928 is no more prone to fires than any other car. It simply comes down to people forgetting it is a 20+ year old car (most other manufacturer's cars are scrap at this point), and they NEED to REPLACE ALL fuel hoses. It needs to be given the same preventative maintenance as any other vehicle. In the past few months there has been numerous posts about engine fires, and from what I can recall, the vast majority was caused by old (original 20+ year) rubber hoses cracking.

In your case it also sounds like the tank vent system did not work as it should. But again, good to know it can be easily fixed, and as John Speake said, there are plenty of used, good quality parts available at reasonable prices.

Good luck and keep us posted. Pictures will help everyone keep their 928's in top shape and is a great incentive for everyone to inspect and replace their fuel system components.

Cheers!
Carl
90GT Project

Fontana

I gave this some serious thought and you know what...I am not giving up. F#%k that! This is my dream car. I waited to have one for over twenty years. This car will be brought back to life. I am having it towed to my friends shop for a thorough inspection early next week and the car will be done properly. Let it begin!

dcrasta

Dont blame the car, blame technology (Fuel Injection) and bad maintanence [fuel leaks, ignition sources, etcetc..]

mickster

Make sure he has a copy of the Workshop Manuals.

Also make sure you have a laptop or tablet handy as he works on it.

Posting questions here will get you answers rather quickly.

Don't give up. You have the inclination. You have the tools God gave you. And you have a friend there and friends here.

fraggle

There are a lot of NYC folks out there that can probably help. Heck if its an hour for you, Wanye could get there in 40minutes.

I do what I can from remote!

Mickster you need to update your sig!!