78 Euro #579 OB Blog
 

Just wanted to let you know about another project. Recently picked up a '78 Euro 5speed, RoW #579.

It's a very nice, original OB, virgin Euro in need of a little TLC.

This is a project car for Kevin Lacy (KLVA) and myself. The plan is to give this car a proper rehabilitation. Focus will be on safety and reliability.

We spent the last month going to thru the fuel system, front to back. Kevin focussed on fuel delivery, and I focussed on the CIS.
He R&R'd the tank, sender, FP, accum, and filter.
I R&R'd the fuel distributor, WUR, and injectors.

I'm happy to say we now have a good running, driving 928!

We were both thrilled to find a super-smooth transmission as well.

The appeal of this car for me was the early build number for RoW, and the fact it's what I call a virgin Euro. It's had no federalization done, to include it still has the KPH speedo! Got all the paperwork for a properly federalized car too.
Also, the interior is really fantastic! No cracks on the dash or pod. Quarter panels are perfect. The carpet is in great shape too.

As you can see, we're pretty excited about this one! :)

The plan is to drive this car and Kevin's Minerva Blue '79 down to SITM next spring.

Stay tuned and we'll keep you posted on progress over the next year. :thumbup:

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First drive.
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this thread

Is useless

"hello, my name is Jim Doerr and I am a 928-aholic"

:D

without

A credit card?

PICTURES!!!! Get them up here Jim!!!!

That's funny! Yea, I had pics in the first post, but I'm not used to this Kodak photosharing thing. Been fixed.

http://members.rennlist.org/jadz928/78_Euro_579_5.jpg

That's a sweet looking car!
Happy New Year!

If only it had a Rogerbox in it I'd be all over that! Incidentally I have sent many, many emails to that guy in PA w/ the early silver OB Euro #295, but have not heard from him since Sept or something like that...

That is a really, really nice, Euro OB. Nice catch Jim.

Very nice Jim & Kevin! Love it!

Awesome Jim. Great job. Maybe we'll have the Blumaxx at SITM next summer too - a little OB bonding and love!
Got your message - Happy New Years to you too! We'll catch up later in the week.:bigbye:

Yea, we're pretty excited about this car.
Don't get me wrong, we took a big risk to pick up a non-running 928, sight unseen! The understanding was the fuel system was FUBAR, which it was :rolleyes: .... but ya never know what else is hiding beneath. So it was a BIG relief when it started up.

#579 is a good baseline OB. It needs some of the typicals, mostly mechanical/electrical. It was very well taken car of by the 2nd owner up until 1994. From then on, the PO didn't do much to it, and drove it only 10K.

I really want to thank Kevin for all that he has done to get us to this point, to include picking up this car from Nashville over his Thanksgiving holiday, keeping the car at his house, and having a nice garage to work in.... with great music as well!

We really busted our butts to get this car running, and learned alot along the way. Very satisfied with the initial outcome. Still have a ways to go, but a good a start as any.

Thanks for the support, fellas! :thumbsup:

Hi! :bigbye:

Thanks buddy! SITM 2012... you got it. OB fun run down the BRP. :D

Maybe he got sick of you calling telling him his car wasn't worth what he was asking. :p

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Sharks in the Mountains 2012
 

Ed, That would be awesome......and Happy New Year to all....K

Its crying out for a silver hood badge...but it is too nice to start deviating.
Wow, that was not what I pictured when you described what you were working on, congrats to both of you~


Period correct Bee Gees & ABBA, I'm guessing?

So...whattheheck is above the interior driver's side door pull? I'm not '78 savvy...

Major-league rescue success on this one!
Near-original, early 5 speed, no roof / no rubs.

As I understand it, this garage queen got awakened without the prerequisite reviews, and ended-up at a service station in the middle of nowhere.

Had you guys not rescued it, it would have likely languished, rotted and gotten picked. Like so many others.

Caught it early. Nice win for the marque.:cheers:

Whatzits
 

That is a mini tweeter left by the PO...sticks out like a hornet's nest, also round speaker cut into lower door carpet...at least he did not cut into the original vinyl covered speaker locations
Needless to say, they are coming out along w/ some crossovers and amp under the seat

Jim, we never even got to the how much it is work talk... I was just trying to get someone to put actual eyes on it and take it for a spin... A bit frustrating to say the least. Keep on keeping your eyes peeled for me for that elusive SUPER EARLY auto OB Jim!!! :)

Great find, great save. 77Tony

Old Photo
 

One of the PO's kept a nice ownership dossier, and included in it was this neat photo from ca. 1989. I love these old pics!

http://members.rennlist.org/jadz928/...d_pic_1988.jpg

So, who pulled the side moulding strips? They need a thank you shout-out . ;-)

Rub strips.....
 

Euro model....never had rub strips or sunroof.....or spoilers...

Got put on yer bifocals, gramps! ;) It appears it did have rubstrips at some point in time. More than likely not from the factory on such an early car.

Possibly later added on with adhesive.

Will have to inspect for signs of filler-welding.. Unlikely to find any signs of intrusion on the backside.

Jim - the add-on "federalization" sidemarkers in the old pic went missing at some point as well. They're all a bit of a research project, aren't they....

Is the rear fog still there?

Very clean look. Original paint?

Get an original radio (blaupunkt or becker?) and Pirelli P7s and you've got a time machine.

I love it.

Yea, still has rear foglamp. :thumbup:

Not the original paint, Brad. Repainted back in '90. Owner from that time said the clearcoat was in bad shape. I don't think factory silver from that era held up well.
The paint is good, but not what I would consider a seriously high end job. The car is a good 10 footer.

Would be neat to find an original radio for it, but the one that's in there is a period Blau, with 2 knobs. So it's close.

It DOES have Pirelli P7's on it! I don't even know how that is possible. Those will be replaced. :rolleyes:

OMG! That is so nice! I would LOVE to have such a find one day. Well done indeed. So clean looking. Those phone dial wheels on a silver car without rubs...does it get any cleaner looking??? Perfect.

Brad,
You just love those P7's don't you. You've been after me to get them on my '79 OB. Maybe when my Goodyear F1's wear out

Yes, the original P7s really complete the original look but I was mistaken, they aren't reproduced by Coker Tire :(

You're absolutely right. Not reproduced. However, used sets or singles come up on gleebay from time to time. I'm looking for a set for the #1 car.
Might take as long to find them as it take to restore the beast. :p

Brad,
Your's had P7's on them? I assume they're on a shelf somewhere to be used only for parades and bar mitzvahs. ;)

No high-speed parades on 30 year old tires please but great for shows! Wish someone would reproduce them. That original P7 tread on the phone dials is classic.

THAT is a fantastic car. I'm seriously thinking about selling the GTS when I get back to the states and buying an early OB. IMHO, the lines are so much cleaner without the spoilers, cladding, rub-strips, etc. Great find and rescue! / Bruce

#579 is heading down to the Doerr garage for some wrenchin'. Should be a great weekend!

We'll keep you posted....

Jim,
Have a great time on her this weekend!

I miss wrenching on the Silver Bullit, she's been in storage way too long!!

Thanks Chuck! Love that Silver Bullit. :thumbup:

Cars parked in the garage. Ready to dig in tomorrow!


Where do you want this thing....? ;)
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Very cool car guys. Nice find and save.

Well Done!!

What a nice interior!

Thanks for the call today, and dropping of the 'S' brakes and spindles!
Glad you made it back in time and one piece. :thumbup:

Whatta great day! Cold as heck, but did alright. Made some good progress with focus on electrics.

I enjoyed workin' with ya, Kevin (KVLA or "Blue"). Good right-hand guy to have around!

Also gotta nice visit from a local 928'r with a new 83S. Great to meet ya, Steve (Bradster928)! :) Nice car! :cheers:

Also, thanks for checking in, Ed (Linderpat). Good talkin' with ya!

Great day all around. :rockon: Will post the gory details shortly.

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OB weekend in Richmond
 

We had a great time this weekend at Doerr's Garage with the 78 Euro

Met some new folks...Bradster brought by his 83 S .. he got it last week
I missed Landseer by 2 min. as I arrived...my bad...Sorry, Chris

We spent some real quality time on the interior and all the interesting wiring from the PO's....pulled the CE and aftermarket stuff

A Good Time was had by All...

Thanks again to the Doerr's for their gracious hospitality

Kevin

Electric stuff, errant wires and whatnots...
 

Had a couple head-scratchers trying to figure out the 'extra' wires and switch.

One was a direct-wire with relay to the foglamps, bypassing the headlamp circuits. An old job, pretty well done. My guess it was part of the fedralization process.

Another was an 'AC on' toggle switch, which bypasses the micro-switch on the HVAC head.

The CE panel looks to be in pretty good shape, with just one power splice (with no cutting, thankfully)

Altogether, pretty minor stuff.



Still need to figure out where this 2-lead pwr (red), and 2-lead gnd (brown) in the pax footwell goes. This can be seen in the right corner of the CE panel pic.
FWIW, I can tell you the right-side door plunger switch has no pwr at this point. Might be something to do with that.
Anybody have an idea?


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Foglamp switch bypass
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Foglamp pwr relay
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AC toogle switch (found on btm side of pod)
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AC microswitch wires (traced back to JI & J2 on CE)
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Looking good guys. As to the extra wires on that end of the panel, I encountered a similar situation with the Blumaxx, and never got it solved - here's the thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-ce-panel.html

Dang....!! looking at those pics makes me think we are getting too proficient at
disassembling these cars.....people might think we are 'pros'....
or 'experts'.........ridiculous......

That is sweet ride. Sorry I missed out.

Progress update
 

Oh man, plenty of more opportunities. We should get together sometime... would be nice to catch up, and you can help me with some odd-n-ends.



Speaking of odd-n-ends... made some notable progress of #579.

Sorted thru some electrics, got the foglamps and AC wired back to stock, cleaned alot of connectors, grounds, and 14 pin (looked great!).

Dug in a little deeper to sort thru the HVAC and vacuum. Was happy to find most diaphragms in good working order.
Biggest strangeness was all the HVAC vacuum ports at the the head connected up completely wrong. Easy one to work out (thank goodness for color routing diagrams!).

Was a great day yesterday to pull out the car and clean up the engine bay. Quite happy with the outcome!

Next steps are to pull it back together, w/R&R'd HVAC, new lights and sliders, CE w/new copper 'torpedo' fuses and select relays, Pod R&R w/new lights and odo gear,

Beyond that, will rewire period Blau radio to stock speakers, the door panel R&R.
(window motor rehab, new window guides, clean regulators, clean and adjust door locks, install armrest reinforcement brackets)

Then on to MM/OPG, pwr steering, LBJ's, and 'S' front brakes and spindles, and exhaust.

Big list, but we'll just keep pickin' away at it. Stay tuned. Always appreciate encouragement! :)

PS. Sorry for all the missing pics from my threads/posts. Working thru server hosting issues right now. Will soon have that worked out which should bring my #6 thread back online.

Engine before:
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...nup_before.jpg

Engine after:
https://rennlist.com/forums/attachme...anup_after.jpg

Quote:"clean and adjust door locks"

If you are referring to adjusting vacuum controlled door locks--how are they adjusted? WSM just says adjust them without any explanation or illustration.

Not sure exactly, but I'll let ya know when I figure it out. :thumbsup:

There's a lengthy treatise on vac locks within the CD's IIRC

Here's the overall diagram ---

Some mention of a earlier change made at chassis 0054 or 57.

But that won't apply to many people here.....

wow. Talk about time capsule.

Good save.

It really is! I've really enjoyed working with this car. Very simple and straightforward (sometimes convoluted, but sorted w/a bit of logic and book resources)

I'm really liking these early cars. :p

Well except for me and Rixter. ;)

This is good stuff for this car, Chris. Thank you.

Studied that and the following color print earlier today. Btw those and a gutted console, I was able to sort out and diagnose what is needed.

The color print really came in handy! :)

(For those following along at home...what Chris posted (TSB 57) covers in detail #6 & #7 on the following)

I need to adjust the passenger side lock on mine too. It usually unlocks with the driver's side, but usually doesn't lock from the driver's side. It did when I bought it, started exhibiting this behavior after I got it back from the mechanic right after I bought it.

Still trying to figure how to adjust servo valve in right door. I've tried it alone, probably a two person job-- One guy fiddles with servo the other manipulates drivers door lock with key and starts car to replenish vacuum when needed.

Unrelated question: how does one do quote stating originally posted by and highlighted in gray?

Here you go...

Thanks, got it.

Man Jim....that really cleaned up........

You are truly 'The Cheese Biscuit'.........Blue

Outstanding. And good stuff too, especially re the locks. Thanks for finding that TSB CHris. I need to go back into my CD set one of these days and refresh my memory of all the good stuff in there. I got away from the CD's when I got my gray set WSM. I'm more of a hard copy guy, but damn, those CDs have so much in them.

progress report
 

Just keep pluggin' along. Got alot of loose ends tied up with a $500 misc. parts infusion. Amazing how a car that is very original still needs a litany of brick-a-brack parts.

Most notable of this lot of pics is the hood insulation. Early cars have insulation in both sections, but Porsche only sells the large one. I was preparing to take a bullet and buy the $100 large section to cut up for the small section, when Roger (928sRus) informed me they sell the small section for $35. Very cool! :thumbup:

http://members.rennlist.org/jadz928/...579_%20021.jpg

Finished CE panel with shiny-new fuses

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Buttoned up the 14pin and jump-post

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Replaced main flap diaphragm (behind firewall). Man, it's a dirt-trap in there!

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Interesting mercury switch I'd never seen before

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Fixed fuel sender connector (always nice to have some spare MB barrel connectors lying around)

http://members.rennlist.org/jadz928/...579_%20009.jpg

Next up is pod and and console R&R, misc vinyl repair, more electrics, the list goes on....

As always, nice work Jim.

Great job Jim! Looking forward to seeing your work and attention to detail in person!

Fly on out here for SITM in June! May be able to drum up an OB for ya! :)

Suburban on stand-by?

Jim, that thought has crossed my mind!

Jim,
Great pics, write ups, info, etc!!:thumbup:

Makes me feel like I should do my own 79 #070 blog!!!!:thumbup:

Missing her more and more every time I see you post!

BTW, I have the same intermittant problem with the door lock on my pass side as well.

Mine seems to be related to temperature. When it's warm out (like 70 plus) it works normallly and slaves off the driver's lock. (open and lock) When it's cold out (40's or below) it turns just a bit, but not enough to lock or unlock the door.

You know there's always somethin' brewing. :D

Oh yea! Might have an OB onslaught at SITM this year!

You should! #070 has always been and inspiration to me, going way back to working thru the LED interior lighting together.

And thanks for the continued support! :) :thumbup:

This makes sense to me. Mechanical friction and binding of the lock mechs due to age (and aged goopy lubes) can easily overcome the vacuum actuator's ability.

Vinyl repair
 

Very impressed I was yesterday at a local auto repair specialist. This guy really works magic, and does PDR, paint repair, interior repair, etc. Kindof a jack-of-all-trades, with a work van to match.

He fixed the driver seat bolster and 5 other small tears/rips, here or there. You'd be hard-pressed to find them. Def. will be using him again!

After watching how he did it and the equipment used, this is something to be left to the pros.

http://members.rennlist.org/jadz928/...ring-after.JPG

Cleaned a few bit while waiting. Almost finished prepping the center console for reassembly.

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Jim,
They did a fantastic job on the side bolster!!

I had the same type of company fix my pod on the GTS. (You cant tell there's been any repair) I have the same side bolster tear (damn PO!!), and plan to have the same company do the identical repair you had done.

Keep up the great work on her!!!

WOW! Great job!!!

Chuck,

Did you have a different OB than Silver Bullit or is that one gone from your collection???

I have a Silver Bullit coming... '78 #295 (Euro of course), Jim will see it and have it all looking and running good (though it already runs pretty good!) before I get it here to TX!

Jim, you have turned into Yoda my friend:icon107:

Great job with the stuff btw.

Well, he is OB-Yoda... Though I really want to call him OB-WAN! Jim is the man when it comes to these VERY early cars!

progress report
 

We made some good progress today! :thumbup:

Kevin focused on the flushing the coolant, and tearing down the water bridge and oil filler.
I focused on instrument cluster R&R, and gutting out some rusty coolant bridge bolts.

Notables would be the early 78 speedo gear is not servicable (?)!
And looks like we got a timing belt change in our future (sprockets look good, however).

It was a good day, getting dirty. :) Thanks for you help Kevin!

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Good work Jim! Those bolts look NASTY! I wonder what #295 will have in store for you?!

Depends on how deep you want me to go, James. ;)

inst. cluster R&R
 

I was happy with the outcome of the gage cluster R&R.

The thing that always bothered my was the greasy paint Porsche used for the bezel. The plastic substrate outgasses and leaves these "moldy-looking" pock marks.
Between re-painting the bezel, polishing the lens, and a few other touch-ups, it looks almost like new again. :)

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Nice job, looks great!

Thanks Glenn!
I know you are a busy guy, but I'd sure like to get ya down for some wrenchin' sometime soon. Would be great to catch up!

PS. Saw the Wheeler Dealer episode on your Stag. Pretty cool car! :)

^^^^^
I LOVED that Blue Stag at the place where the picked up parts for their car! That was a great episode! I'd love to have a TR8 convertible w/ a TR8 coupe auto trans installed (since I have to have an auto), I would love to have a Stag too!

progress update
 

We got back into the car yesterday, after a break to get other projects done.

New rear cam seals thanks to Kevin, and some misc. buttoning up of the interior.

Coolest thing was finding a piece of tape under the glove box marked PROD. NR. 644. More on that in the Early production volume calculations - 1977-78 thread.

http://members.rennlist.org/jadz928/78_Euro_579_049.jpg

Getting ready today to reinstall the interior, after some final cleaning.

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Fantastic.

A couple questions: What is the button under the Klima, above the radio block off plate? What would go in the hole to the right of the clock? Interested because I don't know much about the early cars.

That paint on the underpanel is nice, just right sheen.

Jim, those pieces look beautiful. Should be getting #622 back later today or tomorrow after work. My rear cam seals were shot too, all injector seals were crumbly, and 3 out of 8 intake tube gaskets were sucked in. I can't wait to see how much of a difference these, the De-carbonizing, and the intake refresh will make. Also did TB, Pan gasket, and plugs/wires/cap/rotor. So excited. How bout some more pics!!?

Tilac, the button under the HVAC panel is a reset for the warning light panel which has warnings to the left and right of the button. the thing to the right of the clock is the seat belt warning light/buzzer that buzzes at the perfect time when you start rolling just to scare the crap out of you..

Gotcha, thanks. Love the early OB's clean lines and simplicity, very pure. Crazy about the Pascha too.

Great work Jim!!! I can't wait for #295 to get to you so you can perform a bit of your magic on that car!

Had a good Father's Day wrenching in the garage. Got the front-side interior buttoned up.

The center console is a real bugger to get back together!
I think the best approach is the assemble everything to the backside first. Much easier to plug in on the backside, as opposed to unscrewing all the different modules (HVAC, central warning, etc.).

CE panel back in action, with no smoke... so I guess I got that going for me. ;)

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Looks great Jim!

Extremely nice, good work!

WOW!!! Looking great Jim. Love the attention to detail.

Beautiful. Love the OB dash and wheel, etc.

looks awesome Jim. I wondered- what did you use to get the outer trim ring around the stereo/shifter to stay down? mine is curling up at the bottom right near the shifter, and i'f like to stick it down, just can't think of a good thing to use that'll allow me to remove it in the future if needed. i was thinking silicone adhes, but not sure if it'll be strong enough. i see you had it clamped, i assume after applying some kind of adhesive..

You nailed it. Black silicone adhesive. And clamping, as shown in the pics above.

Silicone, shmilicone. You should make friends with 3M 5200. You'll never go back.

5200 is a great adhesive, but it very permanent. They use is to bond boat sections together!

For this application, I chose silicone adhesive because I need the bezel to be removable, if required.

Yes, 5200 is quite permanent. I was thinking the bits you'd glued were as well.

Looks absolutely fantastic. Wish I could find another set of early dash/door louvers like that for my early OB.

Why'd you go "radio delete"? Or is the answer back in the thread somewhere I missed?

They didn't make the early console very serviceable. To remove the shift boot requires to remove the bezel.

The radio delete choice was a matter of two things. I can't find an original radio and don't want to put in an aftermarket DIN style (requires cutting up the console.

Also, I like it. Seems inkeeping with the simple purity of the early cars.

Some day, I'd like to develop a back-mounted power supply with a hidden Ipod plug

Ah, that explains why my bezel is so buggered (also early car, vin -441).

I agree your delete plate looks nice, and it's possible to put together an iPod driven sound system these days without a head unit per se, so... nicely done.

I'm hoping my early pioneer unit keeps chugging along until I can figure out what to do, as I also refuse to cut the early bezel to fit a standard DIN anything.

I've got a similar vintage BMW, with a factory head unit that Becker rebuilt with a hardwired ipod input. It runs into a line-level processor so I can get a pre-amp signal to the run some old A/D/S amps/speakers.

Guess I'll try do something similar eventually with the 928 using a factory head unit, but right now it's hard to imagine me ever getting it looking as nice as yours is.

Jim...is that a factory radio delete panel? Man that looks clean. I made one for Garrett's car but its a hack job compared to yours. I may try again as yours just looks so good! I for one LOVE the delete. It would ruin a real restore as your doing with a modern radio. A well hidden IPOD attachment could be hidden easily.

That's funny, Dean, I had just looked at your latest pics and noticed you also doing a radio delete plate and had also thought that...well....Jim did an incredible job on his!
Would also like to know his materials/methods there, assuming he made it himself.

You could always get a marine unit; they have smallish wired-remotes with displays. The head unit could mount in the glove box and the remote could be routed somewhere convenient/attractive, along with an aux cable or USB for the iPod. Like this:

This universal with Bluetooth looks even better: http://www.parrot.com/usa/products/b...parrot-mki9100. It's nice and small; looks like it will mount into/onto your delete plate...

AWESOME JIM! Any news on #295? Sent an email to Kevin awhile back and he said he is hanging in with the car, but didn't give me any more info...

Nice Jim....very inspiring.....one day......

Re: delete plate and discreet power supply, I'll get back to you guys once I have it sorted out a little more.

Update:
Got most of the primary electrics sorted out and working. Still need to troubleshoot both window switches.

Note: Fuse #2 (16A) is for the aux lamps (highbeam only) and #34 (8A) is for rear foglamp.
This is for Euro/RoW only, and is shown as "open" in the US owners manual.

Funny thing is I couldn't find these circuits in any wiring diagram publication I have.

Finished up the vacuum central locking, and appears to be working nicely and holding air.
A few observations: Appears to only work with the doors closed. Appears to only be actuated from the driver's door. So it's only function is to unlock the pax door from the driver door.

Quick question on the early fump pump relay. I have side-by-side a new OE relay (right) and an old Porsche relay (left). They look very similar, but the schematics are slightly different.
This could just be my electrical ineptitude, but could someone shed some light here? My guess is they both perform the same function, just curious.

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Looks like I need a new license plate light...
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Next up:
Finish the coolant bridge and oil filler, and start 'er up again. I'm jonesing to drive this thing again!

Hopefully will happen this weekend...

Thanks for reading! :)

Great work Jim!!! You are OB-Wan... Or OB-Yoda, you choose! ;)

Jim - send Rennlister smiffypr an e-mail about wiring diagrams. IIRC, he has a set of the non-US wiring diagrams which may include the early Euro's. He may be able to check for you and possibly provide scans.

Those will clean up pretty well with some encouragement from a bead blast cabinet, and some zinc plating :)

Here's some very rusty exhaust hangers..

1 - before
2 - bead blasted
3 - zinc plated then passivated with chromate dip (in my garage) (edit: the camera flash makes them look shinier than they are)

They are in '78 MY ROW diagram. I have most of the diagram in 26 separate jpeg scans but its all in german.

She runs again!
 

Not terribly eventful since it was just running a few months ago...

But it's always nice to hear it run!

Next up, timing belt. But I'm going to drive it first. ;)



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I want this car.

I prepared the door panels and armrests today. Patched the speaker holes, recarpeted, then reinforced the armrest with brackets. These armrest brackets are the best, and a great value!

Did the whole project for $120, including the brackets, sliverknit carpet, and raw materials.

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Lookin' good Jim! Well done!

Thanks James! I always appreciate the support. Keeps me going.

I know this stuff is not the most entertaining but it will be good for the next owner to know what was done to the car.
Plus other DIY'rs may find some things helpful.

PS Thanks for the fact check and proof last night! :)

Once again curious on your adhesive choices on the door project?

I used epoxy to glue the ABS filler pieced to the door panel, silicone adhesive for the door pockets, and 3M spray adhesive for the carpet.

The silicone adhesive is more than adequate for the pocket panels. They were stapled in before, and had failed. Keep on mind, the pockets are also hung to the door with with two fasteners, along with the door panel.

I'm a design engineer by trade, and I prefer not to over-engineer for the sake of it. The best and strongest adhesive in the world may not be always be the right coice for any given application.

Great job Jim!!

Nice Jim!

Took #579 out for a mild flogging on a short tank of gas with the Techron.

Came back home and picked up my little girl Quinn, for an easy drive around the neighborhood. She likes to sit in the "big girl" seat. :)

I asked her if she saw anything different with the older car (compared to my S4 which she knows well), and she talked about how the seat belts were different, also noticed the vanity mirror above the sunvisor. Very observant!

So we were puttering along, and the car began to sputter. I asked, "Do you heard anything weird?" She said she heard a noise that sounded like a monkey (something groaning from the back). The car stalled.

Started it back up, and she still heard monkeys. I asked her what might be wrong? She replied, "Maybe you are out of gas." :p

We coasted into my driveway. Kids are smart!

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Car is looking great Jim.

love the story....brought a smile to my face:)

Easiest timing belt ever...
 

Wow, these early cars are SO much easier to work on!

TB teardown took 1.5 hrs. Cleaning took 3 hrs.

Would've got it back together, but decided the cam seals need replacing. Quite a mess of oil coming down the sides. :rolleyes:

Pretty cool that the tensioner, roller and belt can all be removed without removing the balance and pulleys.

Best news is the water pump is fairly new!

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Car looks GREAT Jim and I LOVED the story!

Yes, just did the cam seals on the 78 here. All those o-rings were like hard brittle plastic. Would never know they were once rubber.

Watch the big o-ring. Depending on how early the car is, it may be a different size than what 928intl (for example) will send you. If it seems too big going back in, it probably is. The ETM will give you the correct size. I just ordered some from McMaster Carr.

Thanks for the tip! What is ETM?

This is an early car (#579 RoW, which predate most US 78's). Do you happen to have a McMaster P/N?

That is good info for us EARLY OB guys!

ETM- "engineering technical manual"?

The spec book?

http://members.rennlist.com/sharkski...-80-928-TS.htm

Actually, I mis-spoke. I really meant like a parts microfiche.

I cheat and use a re-seller's site that has all the exploded view parts diagrams.
This is infinitely helpful - http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p..._928_parts.php

If you go to the camshaft page, you'll see item #10 is an o-ring that's either 52x4 or 50x5.
I think the 50x5 is the more common one 928int sent me. My very early car needed the 52x4 I eventually figured out, after going crazy trying to get the cam bearing back in (it will NOT go with the 5mm thick o-ring on there). http://www.autoatlanta.com/porsche-p..._928_parts.php

I've probably got 48 left from the bag of 50 I got from McMaste-Carr if turns out you need them. Or 928int has them if you know you need them when you order.

Change was done in early part of '79 MY.

Camshaft O-ring thickness has been changed from 4mm (0.160 in.) to 5mm (0.196 in.), as of Engine Numbers:
829 0252 (5speed)
829 5131 (automatic)

Part Numbers
Old Part Number 999 701 425 40
New Part Number 999 701 602 40

0-Ring Replacing
Order new 5mm thick O-ring for replacement.

Thanks for another source of updated PET parts diagrams. This helps me avoid the hassle of trying to update PET7.2 to Pet 7.3.

>>0-Ring Replacing
>>Order new 5mm thick O-ring for replacement.

Don't order 5mm thick o-ring if your car had the 4mm. You won't get that cam bearing back in the head.

Use a bigger hammer?

Factory says 5mm thick should fit but if its too thick and 4mm will not leak then there is no reason to use it.

I couldn't get the 5mm to go in. Could not "pound" it in regardless of hammer size, and if it did go in it would have been pinched/damaged on the way.
Tried drawing it in by slowly tightening mount bolts. Cam bearing would hang up a mm or two short of seating with cam bolts torqued to spec. Tried variety of lubes and methods.

This is great dialogue! First time doing this job, so I'm relatively clueless.

Roger has hooked me up with what appears to be both orings.

999 113 282 40 2 Cam Shaft Seal - Driven - 77-95
999 701 425 40 2 Cam Shaft O Ring 78 to 79 large
999 701 592 40 2 Cam Shaft O Ring 77-86 small

Should be in today. Will report back with my observations.

Update: camshaft seals
 

The large oring was the easy part. P/N 999 701 425 40 (4mm thick) did the trick there. Went in easy with a touch of silicone, and seated it by lining it up then drawing in the 3 bolts in an even pattern.
Reference point: the original oring was also 4mm thick.

The head-scratcher was the small oring. P/N 999 701 592 40 (23mm X 2mm) was wrong for the job. Should've done my homework to get the right part, P/N 999 701 452 40.
EDIT: Per TSB-03, small oring is 18.4 X2.4mm, see attached TSB. Change occurred for engines s/n from 8280082 (for manual trans), 8289026 (for auto trans)

A couple things to note:
If you don't want to reset your ignition dist., remove it with the cam seal housing. Just make sure to line up the indexing mark with you reassemble (with crank at TDC).

The right side, lower bolt to remove the plastic cover from the cam seal housing is a bugger to get to. I'd suggest installing the plastic cover before pressing back on the seal housing, so you don't have to fiddle with getting the bolt back in.

And don't forget to replace the oil galley seal P/N 928 105 184 00

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78 engine harness p/n 928 612 002 00
 

Another reference point:
Early main engine wire harness p/n 928 612 002 00

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Keep up the great work Jim!!!

Update: back to road-worthy duty
 

There was alot of great action on this project over the past month, in preparation for a road trip to Michigan.

Finished the front seals and TB job, new steel LBJs, new tires, Borla cat-back exhaust, and buttoned up the interior... and a whole bunch of other stuff I choose not to remember. :p

Shook out the car on a shorter trip to Frenzy 16 in DC. The Frenzy is a stellar event... a must attend event!

Car performed great! :)

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The following week saw a 900 mile trip to the Doerr Farm in Michigan. Ed R. (linderpat) and his lovely wife were kind enough to host me in Pittsburg. A perfect halfway point. Thanks Ed and Ann! :) No pics were taken as I was quickly put to work on Ed's car. ;)
Again, the car performed very well! The only change was to increase tire pressure.

So now, #579 will be stable-mates with the #6 car for a couple years. I trust my Dad will drive it! Interesting news is both cars were stored with ethanol free "R90", short for recreational 90 octane.

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Here's a few more pics to include my trusty sidekick mechanic, Quinn. She'll be six this week! Where does the time go...

Thanks for reading! :thumbsup:

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Note single arm with no idler.
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Took a 3-arm puller to get this off! Rusted yes, but seriously galled. Must've been beat on with a mallet. 30 mins of filing and sanding, and it slid right on like it should.
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Jim, very nice car I must say.

I was comparing your #579 euro to mine and I'm trying to understand what it means to have one of these euro cars.
I have 9288101508 which i think is #1508. The car is a euro and everything, everything inside is in german and kmh. I have the same front fenders as you and the same rear bumper with the third fog light. I have no sunroof and the original passenger door doesn't have a mirror. (only drivers side has one).

I'm restoring the car but im really trying to gauge how big of a deal it is to change some things. Am i ruining an expensive timepiece? Im planning on changing the color form petro blue to a custom slate gray. Also I have a newer door from an 83 with the mirror.. i think it would be safer to have a passenger mirror. Lastly the interior was all pasha... i had the seats recovered all black because the pasha had completely deteriorated.. and ... well.. didnt really dig pasha (gasp)

What do you think?

Aaron

Hi Aaron,
Reads like you got a pretty good handle on your 78 Euro!

I say do what you want with it. If you are going thru the effort of restoring it, have fun with it.
Now, if it was a ridiculously early car with a low VIN, I might suggest something different.
However, I would try to keep this car original, in the sense of using the right parts for the restoration. Stay away from serious mods, unless they better the safety of the vehicle. PAX door mirror - safety, 'S' brakes - safety, Steel lower ball joints - critical safety.

Where are you located? Good luck with your restoration, let me know if I may be able to help. :thumbup:

Thanks for the response Jim.

I'm stationed in New Orleans with the Navy right now but have pending orders to DC starting next spring. I'd love to come see your cars when I get back up north.

I've never heard of the issues about the steel lower ball joints. I will do a search. I can see where it would be an issue. I snapped an aluminum lower control arm on my 2001 996. It's amazing how much Porsche keeps the same over the years... the windshield wiper reservoir setups are nearly exactly the same on a 78 928 and a 01 996. I guess if it ain't broke... don't fix it.

Aaron

The Aluminum ball joint WILL BREAK and MUST be replaced with the steel one ASAP. The nice thing is that the biggest steering loads are at low speed so most of them that break do so in parking lots or driveways, so rarely is anyone hurt. That said, it can ruin your day in a real hurry!

Just found this info on your blog Jim. You've helped alot.trying to build a BOM before we rip apart the front of mine to find the source of oil leak down onto the front of both headers. Been going crazy trying to pick through diagrams, etc. this helps a tom. Got a call into my new best friend Roger too..

Glad I could help, Matt. :)

Don't forget the distributor shaft seal (oring).

Also, I may be inclined to use Carl's Silicone water bridge and rear cam cover seals (however not too keen on the price):

http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...dge_gasket.php
http://www.928motorsports.com/parts/...cam_gasket.php

If you use the OE cork, I wouldn't be alarmed. They work, are inexpensive, and have a fair service life.


Lastly,
Early 928's pull a fair amount of oil vapor into the airbox. May be worth installing a baffle or seperator:

928intl's baffle (resonable price): http://www.mailordercentral.com/928i...928 107 707 05

Kuhn's seperator (pricey, but quite a piece of work!: http://www.kuhnperformance.com/model...r-oil-scrubber

Thanks Jim, got the dist seal too, and cam sleeves just in case. can't imagine mine are bad, but i'd rather have them on hand in case. got ther correct Orings, have not purchased cam cover gaskets. the leak i have seems to only be in either fornt corner, so that oil drips down each header, right on the front seam of each. Smells great when you stop at a light.

Wife won't ride in the thing (hmm. let me re-think this..)

As far as oil intake- i couldn't stand thinking of oil running back into the intake after my intake refresh, etc last summer, so i threw on a K&N cone temporarilty/permanantly.. i know some people will scream about this, but it's better in my mind right now than throwing oil into my intake.

after this work, i'm going to rip off my pod for the 5th time in a month or so and take one final look at my odo, if i still can't figure it out, i may see if you're looking for some work. I can't bear to drive this thing without a good odometer with my low mileage.. thanks again for the help

Sounds very much like leaking behind the cam gear covers.

The fat, thick little o rings that look like hotwheels car slicks -- that should solve it.

Its one of those reseal jobs, along with all the cam snout seals, and back cam covers (pointing towards firewall) that I'd characterize as core for 16V.

So far, in rescue of 4 of the 16V cars, I've not had to pull a cam cover itself (ie, the part analogous to a GM valve cover.)

Awesome news on the cam covers. I did order the small hot wheels slicks, and all the others I thought may be needed from Roger. Would be great to not have to pull the covers for sure.. Thanks

Btw~I love your clear side markers,I know a member here sells them?? Can't remember who? Where did you put your running lights after deleting them? I'm Tomlin of popping another lamp into my signal housing.

Well, maybe Jadz 928 should acknowledge that compliment and answer!
(It was his car)

Nicole at Hooked on Cars has them. She is a sponsor here.

Not sure what to make of that filter. Just make sure to save the original hose because it's NLA.
FWIW, your coil wire should route down and across the front cam sprocket cover (where it's clipped to the front of it).

Engine looks good, BTW! :)

I should be able to help your speedo. If you do it yourself, you need to learn to troubleshoot the signals into the gauge cluster.

Pls send me an email when you are ready.

Not sure if anyone is reading this thread anymore but... If you use the wrong size o-ring you will have improper o-ring compression and thusly a poor seal or damage to the seal.

If you are referring to the orings for the camshaft seals, here's a quick tech resource on that:
http://928classics.com/4/post/2013/0...ing-seals.html

I have some new projects coming up for #579 that I will post here to continue Jim's detailed documentation of this car.

I will be addressing the suspension over the next few weeks (shocks, tie rods, ball joints, etc.). I will post pics as they become available.