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1989 928 S4 Cabriolet - On the Road and Getting Prettier - Work In Progress

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1989 928 S4 Cabriolet - On the Road and Getting Prettier - Work In Progress

 
Old 12-16-2011, 02:58 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Mrmerlin View Post
since its an auto i would suggest to do a flex plate check and also a crank end play check also tighten the rear pinch bolt its probably loose. another check is to pull the dipstick drip oil onto the black carboard then look at the oil in the sun if you find lots of metallic particles then the thrust bearing is prolly toast as is the engine
I will add these to my list to knock out. Thank you
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:20 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Spun_Cookie View Post
Its such an odd thing. It gets worse as everything warms up (or pressures up). It will them get worse until it will not run. Let it sit a while... and good to go for a little while again.
You really need to get the crank endplay measured and the flex plate released - these symptoms reek of thrust bearing failure. Hope not, but you have a week or so to check the measurement and order a half price used engine before the 928 international sale ends.
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:26 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Dougs951 View Post
How many 928 cabs were made?
Depends on the company making them. This one was done in California at the same place my car was done. Newport Convertible Conversions. They are still in business and I think they did about 30. There were some others down that put the top on the top of the car with a canvas cover. Not near as nice and put an X frame under the car and a fiberglass trunk lid.

My car has reinforced rocker panels inside the car and a reinforced cross member behind the back seats which makes things invisible. Unfortunately the top is manual. I talked to Newport cars and they said they could add motors to make the top remote.
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:29 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by thelaurie View Post
Emerald, you have my absolute dream car. Congratulations on working through the process and obtaining the elusive Title. You managed to do what those before you could not. You have a huge task ahead of you getting her running, but I have no doubt you'll get'er done.

Keep the pictures and progress reports coming. I am learning alot just reading and watching.

Laurie
I could be talked into selling my 86. it runs great.
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:46 AM
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I do have some history on the car and was planning on buying it a few years back. I think it is the same one. I mean how many white 89 automatic convertibles with a blue interior are there around. There was a guy in Tennessee with two 928s - a Red GT and a White Convertible. He had a company with others that used to rent high end luxury and specialty cars to the Nashville music crowd. Someone blows into town and want a high end ride to impress they could rent one for a while. He also sold some of these exotic cars too. I do not remember the name of the company but some time ago the company went bankrupt and the court forced the sale of all the assets. The guy having possession of the cars hid them in a barn and did not turn them over to the executor. His plan was to hold them long enough so the title ran off the computer. Time goes by and the bankruptcy is closed out and the court does a final distribution of the recovered assets. The executor - a lawyer - was older and later retired. I called him at the time I was interested in the two cars and he was willing for a fee to sign off liability on the cars. The seller got pissed at me for contacting the true owner of the cars and withdrew from the sale. He probably thought i was short circuiting him but I was just trying to make a fair deal with both parties.

Some one on renn list got the GT for I think $7K and did a bonded title. This is where you put up a bond for a number of years unless someone lays claim to the car. After that I understand a clear title can be obtained. Sort of like a lien sale in California.

I do not know what kind of deal you got or how the title was conveyed but this is the history on the cars as best I can recall. You have a fine car there. I was hot on the car because I have a 89 five speed with LSD and it would have been perfect for the car. It sure looks like you are doing a nice job.
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Old 12-16-2011, 07:58 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by Spun_Cookie View Post
So, when I tried to drive her home, I could not get about 3,000 RPM. If felt like it was choking out. It got worse as it go warmer.
As you probably know from owning another 89 that the 89 has a cut out system for the fuel on each bank of four injectors. The relay placed near the computer is controlled by two exhaust sensors on the each side of the engine. If there is an imbalance one bank of the engine is shut down so no raw gas will get to the cat and catch the car on fire as occurred on earlier cars. Check the lights on the relay. Dave Roberts sells a patch out plug for the relay or you can look at the wiring diagram and make a patch wire that does the same thing. The Patch cable just by passed the information from the sensors and opens up both banks of injectors. Of course you need to find the real problem but that is a start.

I have found more often that a bad coil wire can cause the problem.

15 years might be conservative for the number of years the car was stored. I would discount a bad thrust bearing as the car was running when it went for conversion and was not driven since. Besides thrust bearing paranoia is a relatively new thing. If I remember the car had some fairly low mileage - in the 40K range or less.

The fuel system needs a good flush. You are wise replacing the in tank pump with a new tank screen but I would soak the bottom of the tank first in Berryman's B12. It will clean up the tank without damaging the plastic.

After that an engine pull and refresh is probably wise. Good luck with the car.
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Old 12-16-2011, 11:59 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
I do have some history on the car and was planning on buying it a few years back. I think it is the same one… I do not know … …how the title was conveyed but this is the history on the cars as best I can recall.
Thank you. I had just about all of that history. I was a little vague in the first post assuming someone would have some knowledge of this car and fill in some blanks for me. I appreciate you chiming in here.
For me, before I purchased it I spoke a lot will Tennessee, Florida and Arizona. The DMV from Tennessee’s first response was “don’t buy the car. It’s not worth the headache”, but after getting so much of the paper work and many, many more calls with the three states, I believed that it was and folks at the DMVs were in agreement. This was low to no risk.
What I was able to get was a copy of the title signed over from the 2nd owner to a dealer in a trade in late 1996 with ~74K on it. It then went from dealer to dealer via trade and auction until the final owner (I have all the dealer transfers and bills of sales down to the last owner I purchased it from). The last dealer type owner passed and a family member signed a bill of sale over to the person I purchased it from.

The guy I got it from got overwhelmed with the car. I think he sold it to me for what he paid and he put some money into it. He just was not all the mechanically inclined enough to work this one. For me this is going to be a great distraction from my day job. The stress level on this car is zero compared to my real job

The bond process went easy for me after I located all the paperwork that I did all the way back to the 2nd owner’s title. I was even shocked how low the bond cost was because “with that history, there is no risk here”. We basically followed the process since it really turned out that the title was misplaced (maybe intentionally at some point, but the trail for me did go back to the owner’s family from your history).

The clincher for me was the bill of sale from the last owner’s family. I did not post any information on the car until I had the clear title and all the history and work behind me. Not that I was afraid of losing the car with the paper trail I had… the DMV even told me they had never seen so much paperwork for a bonded title., but I did not need all the extra speculation and “help” that comes with a mystery like this. I do want the speculation and help for fixing it though… I am sure we have far more mechanics here than lawyers

Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
You have a fine car there. I was hot on the car because I have an 89 five speed with LSD and it would have been perfect for the car. It sure looks like you are doing a nice job.
I thought this process was such a PITA it was not really worth it. After I get it up and running, I might talk to you about it. I would love to make this a five speed, but I am not bothered by the Auto. It will not be a race car.

Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
As you probably know from owning another 89 that the 89 has a cut out system for the fuel on each bank of four injectors. The relay placed near the computer is controlled by two exhaust sensors on the each side of the engine. If there is an imbalance one bank of the engine is shut down so no raw gas will get to the cat and catch the car on fire as occurred on earlier cars. Check the lights on the relay. Dave Roberts sells a patch out plug for the relay or you can look at the wiring diagram and make a patch wire that does the same thing. The Patch cable just by passed the information from the sensors and opens up both banks of injectors. Of course you need to find the real problem but that is a start.

I have found more often that a bad coil wire can cause the problem.
Aware, yes. “Know”, not completely in the know about anything I have yet to do on these beauties. I did discuss this potential problem with a few folks, hence exhaust work being high on my list.

Originally Posted by Hilton View Post
You really need to get the crank endplay measured and the flex plate released - these symptoms reek of thrust bearing failure. Hope not, but you have a week or so to check the measurement and order a half price used engine before the 928 international sale ends.
Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
I would discount a bad thrust bearing as the car was running when it went for conversion and was not driven since. Besides thrust bearing paranoia is a relatively new thing.
I am going to try to get up to speed on this issue as quick as I can this weekend due to the 928 sale, but my first thoughts are this is not the issue. I could be wrong, but I will know more by Sunday

Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
15 years might be conservative for the number of years the car was stored… … If I remember the car had some fairly low mileage - in the 40K range or less. .
76K on it now and sold in 1996 with 74K. Everything checks out.

Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
The fuel system needs a good flush. You are wise replacing the in tank pump with a new tank screen but I would soak the bottom of the tank first in Berryman's B12. It will clean up the tank without damaging the plastic.
I am going to start there. I will get the tank out today and work from the back forward. I have done a fair amount of work on the rear of these now (pump replacements, fuel line upgrades, etc). It is also the easiest place to start and my large part order is not in from 928 international. I did not expect the title to go through so quickly just because life never works out quite like that, but I guess after the ordeal of getting home, it was balance. 3 months of hard work (yes, the guy listed on craigslist after we agreed to the sale… never understood that… I guess hedging his bets) came down to 4 hrs of completion with a snap… happy happy, joy joy

Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
After that an engine pull and refresh is probably wise. Good luck with the car.
I would like to think I do not need to do that, but if I do I do. And if I do, the car will go in for a full paint job. I like the cream. It looks great. The original paint was the white, but I am thinking a pearl white would look even better… but that is down the road and $$$$ I am not thinking about spending yet.

Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
This one was done in California at the same place my car was done. Newport Convertible Conversions. They are still in business and I think they did about 30. There were some others down that put the top on the top of the car with a canvas cover.
Yep. Did you find out what the conversion on yours cost? I am going to try to track down the actual work receipt if they still have it just for my records.
Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
Not near as nice and put an X frame under the car and a fiberglass trunk lid.
So true. It is hard even describing how well this was done. That is what dot me excited first… it was not a hack job.
Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
Unfortunately the top is manual. I talked to Newport cars and they said they could add motors to make the top remote.
Mine is hydraulic. I need to check the fluids and probably flush them. It goes down real easy, a little slower coming up with a little assistance for the initial 10% coming up and then it’s like butter.
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Old 12-16-2011, 12:41 PM
  #23  
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Attack List Priority (thanks to the help from folks here):
o Starting with the rear
- Gas tank removal and clean
- 044 pump conversion (ordered the kit from murf928 today)
- 044 pump and filter (ordered from roger today)
- Ground clean-up starting with the rear
- Electrical connectors clean-up

o Front
- Crank endplay measure
- Flex plate clamp (ordered from roger today)

... and the work and $$$ start
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Old 12-16-2011, 03:05 PM
  #24  
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Congrats. My '79 convertible was much worse of a basket case when I got it. Its been a long road, but never a been in a rush and mostly have enjoyed the process. It is nice to have something so unique, although my stock 944 cab gets a lot more attention from the public. My estimation is that there were something like 40 to 60 convertables ever built, and that about half of them have been destroyed. That is pretty much just a seat of the pants feel from watching ebay and rennlist and such for a long long time. I don't know exactly why, but it seems like the convertibles see harder use and less care than the coupes. Maybe it is because the pureists stay away from them. Maybe it is because it does them a lot more harm to be left parked outside or 10 years.
On your running problem, don't launch a major jihad until you have carefully checked all the basic simple stuff. My S4 had a running problem like that and it was the plug wires. Corrosion where the wire plugged into the coil. I went through everything else first because the wires looked good.
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:29 AM
  #25  
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Karl,

Corrosion on the coil wire seems to be a common cause of the S4 going into the 4 cylinder mode.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:49 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Spun_Cookie View Post
Attack List Priority (thanks to the help from folks here):
o Starting with the rear
- Gas tank removal and clean
- 044 pump conversion (ordered the kit from murf928 today)
- 044 pump and filter (ordered from roger today)
- Ground clean-up starting with the rear
- Electrical connectors clean-up

o Front
- Crank endplay measure
- Flex plate clamp (ordered from roger today)

... and the work and $$$ start
I would also pull the injectors and have them cleaned and flow tested, if the car sat a lot they are probably clogged.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:15 AM
  #27  
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do the crank endplay first now is a good time to find out if you need a new engine
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Old 12-17-2011, 12:46 PM
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Thank you all for the help so far. i love this site. I have been part of some great bourbon sites over many years that have a very similar feel (and some that did not that will not be named ). I always love finding great folks that just care and are willing to help.

Originally Posted by Mrmerlin View Post
do the crank endplay first now is a good time to find out if you need a new engine
I went and picked up the gauge and base to do this. It is my next task….

Originally Posted by pjg View Post
I would also pull the injectors and have them cleaned and flow tested, if the car sat a lot they are probably clogged.
I will… interesting finds on my post

Originally Posted by Podguy View Post
Karl,
Corrosion on the coil wire seems to be a common cause of the S4 going into the 4 cylinder mode.
My Dad had a 924 where the coil was the issue all along. Had to put two of them next to each other to work down the issues list. In the end, it was the coil.
Originally Posted by karl ruiter View Post
On your running problem, don't launch a major jihad until you have carefully checked all the basic simple stuff. My S4 had a running problem like that and it was the plug wires. Corrosion where the wire plugged into the coil. I went through everything else first because the wires looked good.
Agreed. I am going to work the mechanical pieces first (gas, pumps, fex plate, etc), also doing the TB and WP, then start the electrical work, other than I will clean all the grounds and any connectors I come up to I will check because … why not.

Good progress in the last 24 hrs…
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:11 PM
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Default Day 1 progress

Progress was good. Got her up in the air and pulled the tires. Found that all four of the break caliper sensor wires were broken when the break work was done last... 928 int to the rescue. I decided to go ahead and pull the pans and the front spoiler to make the TB, WP and other front work easier. I know I am going to be under it replacing the engine mounts and I want to pull the oil pan to see what I find... so might as well prep my way through.

Anyhow, once I got all those off I started working the tank (because I did not have a magnetic stand and gauge that Roger (928 int) recommended to do the flex plate test. I also ordered some of PorKen's goodies (flex plate clamp and I will be getting his TB goodies as well... thanks Ken )

As you will see from the shots below, lots of parts off. Tank was a nice pain in the ***, but learned a ton here.

I replaced the fuel pumps on my BB 89S4 so I figured, easy, drain the gas quick and knock this task out on the way to the tank.... but not so fast. Pulled the under parts... founds where one of the prior owners smacked something and bend the line housing and plastic brace for the tank (back to 928 int) and work continued.

I pulled the lines, the prior owner had said he replaced the fuel pumpS and filter. The external was new, the filter was now, but I could not tell with the internal, but I assumed it was new as stated. I started draining the gas and it flowed slowly... like I had little to no gas in the tank. Figured to much vacuum so I pulled the in tank sensor, which i knew was shot and I have a replacement already (928 int again). once I worked it out, I found a sludge like material in the bottom of the white plastic part of that sender. very odd. I figured I would take a shot of it once I got the tank out.

When I looked in the tank, there was about 10 gallons of gas in it. When I did the BB 89, the fuel ran out without a problem. Just drained nice and easy, this was chocked for sure.. .hmmm. I looked in the tank and you could see the same sludge in the bottom and that in take pump was not new. You can see it in the images below, and it is not torqued like some I have see non this site, but you could see age and rust. So I pumped all the gas out this AM (after calling it quits last night to have dinner and think.

Got the tank empty this AM, pump pulled and it is the original I would assume. There is some real rust and gunk. I bet a buck it does not work as a pump, more as a restrictor... Could this be my issue? One can only help, but I know I have some work to do to get the fuel in to exhaust out fixed.

The prior owner pulled the manifold to replace the sensor in there (as he said), but I will to it as well. The injectors will be a clean and or replace....

You will not see a picture of the white sending unit end covered in gunk. When I picked up this AM, all of it had crystalized, cracked and fell off liek rock sugar when I picked it up. You will see the shot of the inside of the tank with the same stuff. I am torn here on letting it dry up and fall apart like the other did (assuming it will) or cleaning it with
Berryman's B12
as Podguy recommended.

Anyhow, see pics and look forward to more thoughts, comments, etc. I am feeling good after day one. The gas chocking from the pump seems like a prime source that I had previously ruled out as a primary, but only a potentially a secondary or tertiary candidate based on the conversations with the prior owner... but I also know that the vast majority of folks have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to cars and will say what it takes to get rid of it, so that is why I check anyhow.
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In any case, happy Saturday AM and thank you, Emerald
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:39 PM
  #30  
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That is some nastiness in that tank. Going thru the same process now, which looks just as bad.

Reads like you got a nice project there!

Let me know if you need a modern pearl white mix (Sikkens). Had my pearl scanned for a really close match.
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