First start after 15 years parked - Intake Restored
05-23-2011, 08:17 PM
#31
Instructor
Thread Starter
The married guys understands me.I removed all sparks and dropped some pints of Bardhal B12 oil. Checked for water leaks and fuel line condition, and Okay for my surprise.
No engine start or spins yet.
I'll keep you guys informed.
05-27-2011, 11:07 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
We have started worse looking ones here... right now we are working on an 84 thats was last plated in 92 and sat in a field ever since. look real close for animal damage to the wires usually the vacuum lines have stared to fall apart replace them one at a time, broken vac lines can cause all kinds of crazy things to happen. replace all the aluminum fuses with real copper or brass ones the old aluminum ones corrode and loose conection. your fuel dis will prolly be full of crud you can rebuild that yourself. the warm up regulator will prolly need to be readjusted after sitting so long. you will need a guage set for that. your fuel pump is prolly siezed also usually terminal you will need either new one or you can canibilize a used one out of a VW rabbit. your fuel guage is prolly all gummed up also most can be taken aprt and cleaned if not they are the same for 928 and 944. the front main oil seal is prolly all dried up and leaking too might as well change the cam seals and the main seal when you replace the timing belt. thats all I can think of off the top of my head feel free to msg me for any help you need.
06-04-2011, 08:24 PM
#34
Instructor
Thread Starter
Call me paranoid, but I'd go through several stages to address each system in turn.. and it may take you more than a weekend depending on how well it was stored and the state of the car.
Engine:
1. Clean the top side and vacuum the spark plug wells, then blow with high pressure air to remove anything that might fall in when you remove the plugs.
2. Remove the plugs, put a teaspoon of oil into each cylinder and replace the plugs.
3. Leave it for a while to let the oil spread its way around the rings.
4. Remove belt covers so you can see the timing belt
5. Go do ELECTRICAL and FUEL SYSTEM preparation steps below
6. After doing electrical and fuel system stuff, remove plugs, and turn the engine over by hand and watch the belt all the way around.
7. Drain the oil, replace with new 20W50 non-synthetic.
8. If all looks good, try turning it over with the starter (still with plugs out), and watch the belt, plus check to see if anything blows out the spark plug holes. Keep it cranking a few seconds until you see the oil pressure gauge rise.
9. Replace the spark plugs with new ones.
10. Put belt covers back together
11. LAST STEP AFTER ALL PARTS BELOW - plug ECU in and replace fuel pump fuse, and try starting.
Electrical system:
1. Clean the ground points and check the engine ground strap and battery box ground straps
2. Remove all the fuses and clean the fuse contacts
3. Inspect the electrical panel wiring for damage (rodents, cracking etc.) that could cause shorts and repair as necessary.
4. Inspect the 14-pin connector wires by the jump post and clean/repair any wires that look damaged
5. Inspect and repair any red wires in the battery box.
6. Make sure fuel pump fuse is removed and ignition ECU unplugged until you're ready to start the engine.
7. Install a freshly charged battery
8. Turn key to "on", wait 3s, then turn off, and look for any smoke (hopefully none as you've inspected all the hot wires and CE panel) - by now you've checked all the obvious wiring, but its still worth making sure you didn't miss any. If you see smoke, disconnect battery and start a long wiring diagnostic process.
Fuel system:
1. Drain the fuel tank, remove both the fuel pumps (78 has two external I believe?) and test both to make sure they run (don't let them run more than a second without fluid)
2. Drop the fuel tank and clean it out - there will be a lot of varnish deposition in there
3. Replace all rubber fuel lines including the return above the tank, and the ones to the expansion tank in the wheel arch, plus engine bay ones. (thanks tails for the reminder)
4. Once tank is clean put it back in along with the pumps
5. Add 10L fuel, a bottle or two of injector cleaner, and a new filter
6. Temporarily add fuel pump fuse back in and jumper the fuel pump circuit and let it run for a while - you want it to circulate the clean fuel and cleaner through the lines and back through the return to flush the system as much as possible. Then turn it off and leave it overnight to soak, and then run some more.
7. Measure fuel delivery at the return line while the pump is running - to make sure the main lines to the engine bay and back aren't blocked, and the pumps are working to spec.
I'd expect the above to take a long time - some of it may seem paranoid, but you really don't want to destroy the car by rushing.. 15 years will have seen corrosion, rodents, moisture, rubber hardening, insulation cracking, and more - so take your time.
After all that, and an attempt to start the engine, you may, if you're lucky, get the engine to fire and run briefly, albeit badly. If not, check spark and fuel
Then the troubleshooting of the CIS injection system begins - you'll probably need to get the injectors cleaned, the WUR and Fuel Distributor cleaned and rebuilt, and the control pressure set correctly. There will also likely be vacuum leaks and resulting timing issues too. Its also worth replacing the timing belt even though the motor is non-interference.. as it'll have taken a set after 15 years and you don't want it to break while driving around
Engine:
1. Clean the top side and vacuum the spark plug wells, then blow with high pressure air to remove anything that might fall in when you remove the plugs.
2. Remove the plugs, put a teaspoon of oil into each cylinder and replace the plugs.
3. Leave it for a while to let the oil spread its way around the rings.
4. Remove belt covers so you can see the timing belt
5. Go do ELECTRICAL and FUEL SYSTEM preparation steps below
6. After doing electrical and fuel system stuff, remove plugs, and turn the engine over by hand and watch the belt all the way around.
7. Drain the oil, replace with new 20W50 non-synthetic.
8. If all looks good, try turning it over with the starter (still with plugs out), and watch the belt, plus check to see if anything blows out the spark plug holes. Keep it cranking a few seconds until you see the oil pressure gauge rise.
9. Replace the spark plugs with new ones.
10. Put belt covers back together
11. LAST STEP AFTER ALL PARTS BELOW - plug ECU in and replace fuel pump fuse, and try starting.
Electrical system:
1. Clean the ground points and check the engine ground strap and battery box ground straps
2. Remove all the fuses and clean the fuse contacts
3. Inspect the electrical panel wiring for damage (rodents, cracking etc.) that could cause shorts and repair as necessary.
4. Inspect the 14-pin connector wires by the jump post and clean/repair any wires that look damaged
5. Inspect and repair any red wires in the battery box.
6. Make sure fuel pump fuse is removed and ignition ECU unplugged until you're ready to start the engine.
7. Install a freshly charged battery
8. Turn key to "on", wait 3s, then turn off, and look for any smoke (hopefully none as you've inspected all the hot wires and CE panel) - by now you've checked all the obvious wiring, but its still worth making sure you didn't miss any. If you see smoke, disconnect battery and start a long wiring diagnostic process.
Fuel system:
1. Drain the fuel tank, remove both the fuel pumps (78 has two external I believe?) and test both to make sure they run (don't let them run more than a second without fluid)
2. Drop the fuel tank and clean it out - there will be a lot of varnish deposition in there
3. Replace all rubber fuel lines including the return above the tank, and the ones to the expansion tank in the wheel arch, plus engine bay ones. (thanks tails for the reminder)
4. Once tank is clean put it back in along with the pumps
5. Add 10L fuel, a bottle or two of injector cleaner, and a new filter
6. Temporarily add fuel pump fuse back in and jumper the fuel pump circuit and let it run for a while - you want it to circulate the clean fuel and cleaner through the lines and back through the return to flush the system as much as possible. Then turn it off and leave it overnight to soak, and then run some more.
7. Measure fuel delivery at the return line while the pump is running - to make sure the main lines to the engine bay and back aren't blocked, and the pumps are working to spec.
I'd expect the above to take a long time - some of it may seem paranoid, but you really don't want to destroy the car by rushing.. 15 years will have seen corrosion, rodents, moisture, rubber hardening, insulation cracking, and more - so take your time.
After all that, and an attempt to start the engine, you may, if you're lucky, get the engine to fire and run briefly, albeit badly. If not, check spark and fuel
Then the troubleshooting of the CIS injection system begins - you'll probably need to get the injectors cleaned, the WUR and Fuel Distributor cleaned and rebuilt, and the control pressure set correctly. There will also likely be vacuum leaks and resulting timing issues too. Its also worth replacing the timing belt even though the motor is non-interference.. as it'll have taken a set after 15 years and you don't want it to break while driving around
I like to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH all for of you that helped me at this task.
I'll keep posting the results here once there is a lot of working to put this car at 100% running condition. I'll change the fuel lines, timing belt, AC revision, water hoses and vac line.
Thanks again !
JL
06-04-2011, 10:40 PM
#37
JL,
Great work, now that you have caught the monkey the real work begins.
Keep us posted, as a lot of members have "been there, done that" and have the "T" shirt and can help.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto.
Great work, now that you have caught the monkey the real work begins.
Keep us posted, as a lot of members have "been there, done that" and have the "T" shirt and can help.
Tails 1990 928S4 Auto.
06-05-2011, 02:24 PM
#41
Team Owner
glad you went through the systems and got a great result congrats on a running shark
06-07-2011, 08:58 PM
#42
Instructor
Thread Starter
Was late night when we finished, and had no time to finish the fuel tank cleaning, I decide to use a coke bootle instead. We left the car running for a few seconds only. You know... late night, we was tired, and the game was won... why run more risks ? Next weekend we will finish the fuel tank cleaning and let it working for more time and I'll try to record and put it on Youtube.
06-07-2011, 09:17 PM
#43
Instructor
Thread Starter
Forgot to say... I removed and checked all relays, fuses and connectors... was a tedious and dirty job in a bad position to work. All fuses had to be changed due to corrosion. Some relays will be changed, some of them has corrosion on terminals, but all working so far.
06-11-2011, 03:34 PM
#45
Instructor
Thread Starter
Not a good day so far...
The car is not working anymore. No gas from fuel injectors.
Fuel pump is delivering about 1,5L in 30 sec, I think it´s a normal rate for this car.
The second suspect is the CIS... Can the CIS is clogged for some reason ?
Before go ahead on CIS rebuild http://www.porsche928forums.com/down...CISRebuild.pdf , I like to hear from you guys.
What do you think ?
Thank you !
The car is not working anymore. No gas from fuel injectors.
Fuel pump is delivering about 1,5L in 30 sec, I think it´s a normal rate for this car.
The second suspect is the CIS... Can the CIS is clogged for some reason ?
Before go ahead on CIS rebuild http://www.porsche928forums.com/down...CISRebuild.pdf , I like to hear from you guys.
What do you think ?
Thank you !