Dave928S

Here are some pics from my 5 speed which was functioning perfectly but still has the engine out for a rebuild.

1. Owners manual page 72.

2. Owners manual page 73.

3. CE panel.

4,5,6,7. Views of relay XIV fitted to my car.

8. Looking at upper side of clutch pedal showing a microswitch which is actuated by a rod projecting from the upper tunnel side of the pedal (red line around it) ... I assume this completes the coil circuit for the relay to provide a start lockout when in gear ... or is it a fuel related WOT lockout? (can't test at the moment, didn't notice when driving and haven't' studied wiring diagrams that intensely).

Landseer

The 82 documentation is severly lacking, so everything is uncertain to me right now.

This is from the 1982 USA service tech booklet.

I wonder if it also applies to the ROW models ( S and/or non- S )


The bridge F referred by the second diagram --- I think that is a short wire bridge in on one of the white plastic terminal blocks in the spare tire area of the trunk.

gbgastowers

the pic has 86 to 87 jumpered and nothing is happening when set up like this. If I do far left to far right that's when the action happens(30 to 87) . Chris- I'll check those pins and report back.

Dave928S

Mine definitely has a relay as per the pics and it works fine, and I can see no alterations to the factory wiring to suggest that it's been altered from factory.

The last post from Chris seems to indicate that some do have a relay .. some don't. Another one of those mysterious Porsche anomalies that we see with a few other things.

Edit: The penny just dropped and I now understand what you're saying about the manual Wally, and I think you're correct in your interpretation of the wording relating to XIV. Would seem that my owners manual is early 82 print, shows no relay and refers to a bridge, whereas my car is late 82 manufacture with the added relay. Wallys comments tie in with Chris' docs re the relay addition to manual cars late 82.

Dave928S

The way my car is wired with a relay (look at the pic of the schematic on the side of the relay) ... you would expect that bridging 30 and 87 would give you action because it's doing exactly what the relay does when the coil is energised ... connecting 30 and 87. 85 and 86 are the connections for the coil and are a separate circuit to 30 and 87.

GlenL

Those diagrams and pics clearly show the '82 using a relay. The diagrams show the relay solenoid is powered between 86 and 85 and it closes a switch between 30 and 87 that in turn fires the solenoid on the starter. If it's always firing the starter you may have pins confused or another electrical issue.

Landseer

Nice information, Dave.
Looks like that might be a safety add?
Dangerous design without that switch.


Glen, remember I pulled diagrams from the USA tech spec books.
I wonder if a relay would work.


Gunar, could you read the part number from the electrical panel itself?
That will help us cross reference ROW PET as well as some other obscure books.

Did you try a straight 53 relay by any chance ( not sure if that has same pins, now, maybe Daves diagrams show it)

This is crazy.

gbgastowers

0 reading on 86 with ignition on or off, 30 is reading 12.5 w/ ign on and off and only other pin with a reading is 85 with a reading of 2 both ways. My car has the switch on the clutch like Daves. Does anyone know what this is? I'll check PET. gUNAR

gbgastowers

I have that exact same relay for XIV. I wonder if this is pointing to a bad ignition switch since starter and fuel pump both work when jumpered a certain way. 30 to 87 for XVII and fuel pump runs instantly. 30 to 87 for XIV and starter turns instantly.

gbgastowers

92861010505- you can see the number my pic- I have the same exact relay as Dave for XIV and with it in nothing happens.

Dave928S

Note that I added this information to post 34 ... you guys are pounding out the posts and I thought it might get buried. Chris ... looks like a safety addition as there must have been voltage drop = heat!

Edit: The penny just dropped and I now understand what you're saying about the manual Wally, and I think you're correct in your interpretation of the wording relating to XIV. Would seem that my owners manual is early 82 print, shows no relay and refers to a bridge, whereas my car is late 82 manufacture with the added relay. Wallys comments tie in with Chris' docs re the relay addition to manual cars late 82.

Landseer

It very well could.


SeanR had a way (and I saw it in the WSM) to jumper something at the 14 pin connector to get the car to turn over for a compression test. I think without a key, not sure, might want to ask him.



Check out these diagrams from Electrical Training documentation. 03 panel is for 81; 05 panel is for 82.
(ROW and USA PET both shows this same set of panels)

For 82, its showing hand writing on panel for Bridge 928 612 473 00 --- which is what PET says.
But the legend suggests a relay only this year! Which, BTW, is 141 951 253 B from the PET ---- which I think is a standard 53?

gbgastowers

Thanks for all the help guys- I will go to bed now and then tomorrow I will try and start it from the CE panel. I guess I'll jumper the fuel pump then jump the starter till it starts then pull the jumper from the starter. I wonder if when I pull the starter jumper does this shut off the coil? Maybe I should just get a new ignition switch and wait to try starting. Gunar

Landseer

Wait.

And how about putting the engine shot in here for the rennlist crew to see?

Dave928S

If that's the case there can be two possibilities .... faulty wiring switching 85 and 86 = nothing happens ..... or yours is an earlier 82 than mine and it never had a relay. If it never had a relay and had a bridge it would be a good idea to modify the wiring so that the ignition switch doesn't carry the full load and merely switches the coil circuit as per that second set of diagrams that Chris posted.

Edit: I'd like to see a few pics too.