hans14914

Well, looks like we are towards the end of the process.

I have a finished crossover design here, which has been tested and tweaked in the lab. I am going to build one and try it in a car to see if any further tweaks are required before ordering a bunch of components.

Good news is that component count is relatively low: two inductors, four capacitors, three resistors = nine components per side. Thats not bad for a fully optimized design, I was expecting to be into the 12 components/side area.

Crossovers will use good quality components... not the most expensive stuff out there, but the parts which represent the best value. Looking at Jantzen inductors, with Erse as a backup choice, either Dayton or Erse polypropylene capacitors, and Dayton non-inductive resistors.

The Dayton parts really are tough to beat on the value side of the equation, so I am leaning in that direction for the caps and resistors. However, I will make the footprint capable of using Jantzen, Solen, Erse, or Dayton caps, so if you really have a preference, I can swap them in for you.

Looking at getting a test rig up this weekend, will let you know how they sound in the car with the passives as soon as I can.

Thanks
Hans

PHIL928

Sounds awesome!
I can't wait!
I need to fill those holes in my doors

DanielD

Me either.... Let's go!

hans14914

Actually I was about to post an update last night, but ran out of time before heading to an after-work meeting.

I have contacted all the usual suspects in the passive crossover component game. I am opting to splurge a little bit, and order in custom Clarity Caps for the crossovers. They are a bit more expensive than the cheapest available options... but really, a good value when purchased in a large quantity. I have the ability to change some of the characteristics of the caps, and have full control of the cosmetics. These will be co-branded with my artwork on them, and have upgraded leads. I am thinking of using a black tape, white resin, and white artwork. Should look really clean when installed next to the white ceramic encased resistors.

Inductors are either coming from Solen or Jantzen. Pricing from Jantzen is very good, but the shipping may end up killing in the long run. Inductors are pretty darn heavy, so it may be better to get them here on this continent. The Solen inductors are very nice as well, I just tend to prefer the cosmetics of the Jantzen, as they do not use any zipties to hold the coil. The resistors will be sourced from whoever gets the inductor contract.

Clarity cap does have a bit of a lead time for the order. If I get the PO in today, they will ship December 16... which I think is pretty darn good. The inductors have a 2-week turn around time from Solen, so that would get everything here about the same time. No one retailer/supply house has the components necessary for this design, so it is going to require some custom orders no matter what.

The only thing I havent fully decided on yet is how to handle the connections between the speaker wire and the crossover. I am considering using pluggable terminal blocks. This is a bit unconventional, as I cant recall ever seeing anything like it used on a crossover, but it would make servicing the area where the crossovers are installed much easier. Here is a line-drawing of the 4-pin connector I am considering using for the output, it would condense the tweeter-positive, tweeter-negative, woofer-positive, woofer-negative into one connector.



The speaker wires would be stripped about .18", inserted into the block, and the clamping screw engaged. Then any time the leads for the crossover would need to be undone (say if it was installed int a door and you needed to remove it to put in a new regulator or guides), the wiring would just unplug without any risk of shorts, and it would insure proper reconnection - assuming it was wired right the first time

The input side would be similar, but only have two circuits for the input-positive, and input-negative from the amplifier.

Thoughts and comments would be apprecaited. Using a standard barrier strip for use with spade terminals would be less money, but also requires terminals and crimping on the user end, and when undone does introduce the possibility for shorting or improper reconnection.

Thanks
Hans

Speedtoys

I have no issues with that. Beats fighting terminal connections in a tight space.

hans14914

OK, need some input here. What kind of connectors do you guys prefer for the crossover. I can do the pluggable terminal blocks, as pictured in the above thread, or I can do spring-loaded terminals like on the back of the 4" driver like these here:



The pluggable blocks have lots of advantages in that they are insulated and compact. These terminals are much larger, and they are not insulated... but they look nice.

Thoughts.

Thanks
Hans

heinrich

Insulated and compact is better Hans, and (I know I know yes yes) ... a little weight saving is a good thing.

jcorenman

My vote would be for the pluggable terminal blocks-- More compact, insulated, and more secure. The problem with the spring-loaded binding posts (besides bulk) is that the contact pressure is pretty low, and any surface oxidation makes for a lousy/intermittent connection. On high-end stuff they get around that with gold-on-gold, chrome-on-tin isn't quite the same.

Rob Edwards

As often as people seem to have to go into the doors in a 928 for service purposes, I think the 'quick disconnect' plug blocks make a lot of sense.

PHIL928

I agree with the others, the pluggable blocks seems way more convincing!

hans14914

Done, pluggable it is.

Thanks for the feedback. Hope to put the PO's in today for component parts.

Thanks,
Hans

Ed Scherer

Hans, I've been using similar pluggable terminal blocks (from OST, both in 3.81 mm and 5.08 mm pitch; I believe Molex has equivalent parts) over the last few months and have become a big fan.

Very nice solution, IMHO, for both quick disconnect and ease of initial wiring.

hans14914

Yep, I like them too.... just wanted to make sure the customerbase was on board before using them by default. I am looking at using the Molex 5.0mm pitch. They are in stock at my supplier, and available in black. I am still a stickler for cosmetics, no green terminal block for me.

Thanks
Hans

hans14914

Time for an update. The custom Clarity Caps are on order, and due to ship out the week of December 16. I should have the inductors and resistors required before the caps get here. The only part remaining will be the circuit board. I am hesitant to have these made in advance, as I would like to physically measure and layout the components. I do have a very fast board house that I use, and so may wait to produce the board until after the components arrive.

I have calculated most of my costs, and I am ready to post pricing information for the front door kits.

The first kit to be released will be the 84-95 (two speaker per door, not the euro single driver) door kit. The kit will include:
Two - custom 4" drivers
Two - Vifa NE19 tweeters
Two - custom crossovers, tuned to the above drivers
Two - 4" grill
Two - tweeter housing/grills
Two - crimp terminals for tweeter connection
Four - grill badges

Installation is fairly straightforward. The drivers install into the original locations, and require no modification to the door or door card. The only issue is that the included crossover must be used for the system to work as intended. The crossovers can be installed in the doors (requires door panel removal) and be connected using the factory wire harness. Simply unplug the connections to the factory crossover, and instead, connect them to the new replacement crossover. Alternatively, all new wire can be used while the door is off, which may be the preferred option for the highest level of performance. Crossovers can also be located under the dash or above/below the parcel shelves, and new wire can be fished through the door loom tubes without removing the doors. This method is frustrating, but possible.

You may be asking... "Why bother upgrading/replacing the factory crossover?" I think the best way to respond to this, is by posting a picture of what is inside the factory crossover module... the answer is not much (picture attached).

You may note that that factory crossover used both very small wire in the inductors (looks like 22g), and also an electrolytic capacitor. Using a small guage wire in the inductor is allowable, as long as the resistance is kept in check. I can tell you that this is a bottleneck in the original system, and is actually scrubbing off output from the amplifier. Electrolytic capacitors are only used for cost savings. They are widely known as being absolutely terrible for sonics.

The replacement crossover is properly designed, and phase coherent. It is using premium quality components. I have chosen component which have a very high cost/benefit ratio, and not gone overboard, but picked parts which will make an audible difference to even an untrained ear without breaking the bank. In full disclosure, I am using a 20g inductor for the tweeter in my design, but it is so small 0.080mH that this is perfectly acceptable, as the impedance measurement is very low. I am using an 18g for the woofer in order to get a reasonable impedance measurement.

No portion of this kit has been overlooked. It will represent the best possible option without permanently modifying your 928. The value in this kit not only comes in the way of uncompromising performance, but also in the way of retained value of your car, and reduced labor time in installation. This kit will install faster than any other aftermarket kit, as it is designed specifically for the 928. Because you dont have to modify the door permanently, your car can be returned back to stock in very little time. Cars with stock appearance always command a higher resale value (while the new grills have a very stock appearance, it gives you the option of going either way to get greatest possible value from your car).

With all that said, I am setting the MSRP for the kit at $399, this leaves margin so that I can enlist the assistance of the vendor network. This price is significantly lower than you will find for these drivers anywhere else - even without the grills, crossovers... et al. There will be discounts for purchase with the SharkWoofer system, and also a pre-order and multiple purchase discounts.

I will accept a pre-order on the first 15 kits at the rate of $325. During this time period, I will also be discounting the Sharkwoofer enclosure system to $350.

The standard discounted pricing for the door speakers and the Sharkwoofer enclosure system will be $750... so take advantage of the pre-order period for the highest amount of savings.

Pre-orders will be delivered as soon as possible. I would like to estimate that they will ship before the end of the year, but depending on how the holidays effects various manufacturing process and shipping, this could push delivery into the first week of January at the latest.

I will be starting a new thread soon, with updated pictures, installation instructions... etc, and also introduce my new operating entity: Project Nine.

Thanks
Hans

PHIL928

Put me down for a kit, I'll send a pm